[permaculture] Advance notes on Permaculture Standards and Principals for NAPC
c.s.carnevale at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 10:05:46 EDT 2014
Thank you for your lead work here, Scott. This is a critically important
discussion to have at NAPC and I am eager to know what comes of it. I
unfortunately will not be able to attend, so I want to put in a few
You brought up the idea that a PDC certificate does not confer the right to
teach or design, however, the agenda currently lacks a substantial section
on “what criteria are necessary to call oneself a "permaculture designer.”
You may want to add that in, and there may be other non-PDC/diploma
activities that would be worth touching on in this conversation, such as
teaching introduction to permaculture or other less informal courses,
convening permaculture community groups, hosing permaculture
convergences/conferences, etc. and perhaps setting recommendations or
guidelines for these types of activities under the authority of PINA to the
Charleston, South Carolina
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura at gmail.com>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 3:16 AM, <farmer1 at gasperfarm.com> wrote:
> > Discussions like these give me a sour feeling as I dislike political
> > wrangling. These things seem inevitably to degenerate into protecting
> > turf, excluding people, and creating boundaries around accepted thoughts
> > and practices and all of this serves to squelch innovation.
> It looks like you have written off the entirety of Scott's effort to use a
> valuable convergence to create documentation about a definition of
> Permaculture and
> standards for Permaculture education that everyone would benefit from well
> into the future. In addition to that you are unjustly accusing Scott and
> of "protecting turf, excluding people, and creating boundaries around
> accepted thoughts and practices and all of this serves to squelch
> innovation" It seems to me that the permaculture community having a
> properly described, in depth, well written set of standards to use on an
> ongoing basis, year after year, would serve to stimulate innovation.
> > In movement theory this situation is one that happens when a movement is
> > peaking and has or soon will reach the apex of its influence and
> > philosophy. When pioneers and visionaries are driving things folks are
> > busy doing and innovating to worry about turf battles and solidifying
> > institutional control to maintain the ground taken.
> After all that has been said and discussed about the great need for
> intelligent, comprehensive, in-depth Permaculture standards in our time,
> in part because of all the phonies and poseurs attempting to co-opt the
> movement exclusively for personal financial gain, you do not seem to
> think there is a need for that.
> > I'm not saying your efforts are not warranted or needed; I just take it
> > a bad omen and this isn't the first such thing I've noticed.
> Bad omen? What other things have you noticed?
> > Is PC capitalism an oxymoron looks like a worthy discussion. What is the
> > Price of a PC looks like a ridiculous overreach in grabbing for power.
> > Pete
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Michael Pilarski via permaculture <
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
> > Some people do not like circles or holding hands or singing. That is
> > It is their right to stand aside and not participate. I am all about
> freedom. On the other hand, if
> > some of us do want to stand in a circle, or hold hands, or sing songs,
> that is
> > our right and those who prefer not to, do not have the right to enforce
> > preference on us.
> > At NAPC we will warn people before doing any of these things so that
> people can step aside.
> "I am all about freedom." Apparently freedom to alienate those attendees
> who have no interest in hand holding and singing in a circle
> and would rather just get on with work, i.e. creating Standards for
> Permaculture, by accusing them of trying to enforce their will on others.
> I am sure that those people Toby mentioned will have their decision not to
> attend NAPC enforced by this unfortunate attitude.
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura at gmail.com
> Skype: lawrence.f.london
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