[permaculture] Advance notes on Permaculture Standards and Principals for NAPC

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 06:58:21 EDT 2014

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 3:16 AM, <farmer1 at gasperfarm.com> wrote:

> Discussions like these give me a sour feeling as I dislike political
> wrangling. These things seem inevitably to degenerate into protecting
> turf, excluding people, and creating boundaries around accepted thoughts
> and practices and all of this serves to squelch innovation.
It looks like you have written off the entirety of Scott's effort to use a
valuable convergence to create documentation about a definition of
Permaculture and
standards for Permaculture education that everyone would benefit from well
into the future. In addition to that you are unjustly accusing Scott and
of "protecting turf, excluding people, and creating boundaries around
accepted thoughts and practices and all of this serves to squelch
innovation" It seems to me that the permaculture community having a
properly described, in depth, well written set of standards to use on an
ongoing basis, year after year, would serve to stimulate innovation.

> In movement theory this situation is one that happens when a movement is
> peaking and has or soon will reach the apex of its influence and
> philosophy. When pioneers and visionaries are driving things folks are too
> busy doing and innovating to worry about turf battles and solidifying
> institutional control to maintain the ground taken.

After all that has been said and discussed about the great need for
intelligent, comprehensive, in-depth Permaculture standards in our time,
in part because of all the phonies and poseurs attempting to co-opt the
movement exclusively for personal financial gain, you do not seem to
think there is a need for that.

> I'm not saying your efforts are not warranted or needed; I just take it as
> a bad omen and this isn't the first such thing I've noticed.

Bad omen? What other things have you noticed?

> Is PC capitalism an oxymoron looks like a worthy discussion.  What is the
> Price of a PC looks like a ridiculous overreach in grabbing for power.
> Pete

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 5:10 AM, Michael Pilarski via permaculture <
permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

> Some people do not like circles or holding hands or singing.  That is
> It is their right to stand aside and not participate.  I am all about
freedom. On the other hand, if
> some of us do want to stand in a circle, or hold hands, or sing songs,
that is
> our right and those who prefer not to, do not have the right to enforce
> preference on us.

> At NAPC we will warn people before doing any of these things so that
people can step aside.

"I am all about freedom." Apparently freedom to alienate those attendees
who have no interest in hand holding and singing in a circle
and would rather just get on with work, i.e. creating Standards for
Permaculture,  by accusing them of trying to enforce their will on others.
I am sure that those people Toby mentioned will have their decision not to
attend NAPC enforced by this unfortunate attitude.

Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Skype: lawrence.f.london

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