[permaculture] NAPC: Scarcity?

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Sun Aug 10 20:54:37 EDT 2014


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Koreen Brennan <koreenbrennan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Lots of good ideas here! Many! Can I forward this to Michael Pilarski? He
> will be very interested in this, I know.
>
>
Yes. Please do and encourage him to enter the discussion. I post these
ideas for projects because I am convinced they are affordable, effective
and will do the job they are intended to do.

A little clarification of some details brought out in previous posts:

1) Having a laptop, projector and screen with the facilitator, and
preferable a team of two folks, one to listen and type and plug in media on
memory sticks provided by attendees, listen to feedback from audience and
type that up in a document to be displayed onscreen alternatively with the
main media presented. This leaves the facilitator to remain standing,
looking at audience and screen to manage discussion while the
secretary/typist manages the whiteboard and the media display. Whiteboard =
simply writing up highlights of discussion and key points, top tier issues,
wishlists, things to do, as they occur so people  can see where discussion
is focused and where it needs to go and what possibilities exist and what
has been accomplished and decided on. This is S.O.P. in many types of
organizational meetings.  The typist/note taker can just enter text data
into a common text file for display or to get fancy create a little webpage
(only on the laptop) to be displayed partitioned into sections
corresponding to the major points of discussion about the topic at hand and
edit the appropriate text in any of the sections. Load page into web
browser on laptop, display through projector onto screen, edit text in a
topical section, save and changes, updates appear on screen; the audience
gets to watch the whole process in real time.
This would be super easy to do and you would already have the web page for
that event at the NAPC already done, documentation and feedback loop for
the attendees and finished webpage(s) ready for publication online. Cool.

2) I will create the Google+ page for this list and add appropriate Google
services to it. This could be cloned for the NAPC G+ page if you need it
but I do urge you to establish a Google+ presence for NAPC sooner rather
than later. Don't count on FB for much of what you need. There's a whole
different crowd at G+. New worlds to explore.

Here is another example from John Kellden of Sweden:
There are a lot of computer and web references (The Semantic Web, will be a
blessing for us now and in the future) in there but still should be
interesting to permaculturists
for progressive thought.

"
John Kellden <https://plus.google.com/u/0/101010252943098026073>
owner
 -  2:28 PM
<https://plus.google.com/u/0/101010252943098026073/posts/3KxzmWYDhJ7>

*21C Platforms: Content, Context, Conversations, Collective Intelligence*

Very intriguing overview and research by +Pamela Wang
<https://plus.google.com/105408925207475973229>
Pamela Wang <https://plus.google.com/u/0/105408925207475973229> originally
shared <https://plus.google.com/u/0/105408925207475973229/posts/MJ61V8PCzT6>
to Conversation (21C Design & Tech)
<https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/109257599738414342408>:

*Collective intelligence Search and Knowledge built from the Context of
Conversation from our Collective Works* The mechanics so we can think about
how to feed our gardens.

This was supposed to be a comment which I was in the process of creating
several days ago but the post disappeared. It may still have some value
since it relates, in part, to +Jan Wyllie
<https://plus.google.com/104729717615479691060>  post and a few others
along this vein  *" Fundamental Question of Purpose—Should software
"determine optimal information?"*  I was going to let this perish in my
files but thought this blurb of thought might still have some utility.

At the root of how search works is the premise that originated decades ago
and the vision for the semantic web initiated by Tim Berners-Lee and
others, and what followed from there. What has thrown a monkey wrench into
this effort are the limitations of physical structures such as wires,
chips, logic gates, and other such bits and pieces which impact how
software can function.

Then, there are the algorithms, the fancy patterns, to see within the
patterns, to structure the patterns, and other software dancers that sort
out the data for package and delivery. It all happens one layer at a time,
the dominoes in line, the bricks one upon the other. And that is the
problem, it is not organic. It can't jump to things it cannot see even
though they related, abstractly. The shrimp instead of the standard cheese
on the pizza -- do they go to together? They do in Asia.

The search software can't deliver everything at once; have you looked at a
million links from a search? It has to limit that or you would never be
able to handle the mountain so why not limit the view to you and fund the
process at the same time? The algorithm can do that dance. We build these
systems to dance and pay for our efforts as well. We have to pay for all of
that electricity, buildings and servers somehow. This is why free does not
work; someone has to pay for it somewhere down the line.

As for this community, I was thinking more about how to share that original
vision and how it all comes together for those not living in web speak
realms, what these terms and mechanics mean to each of us in their current
incarnation; sort of a history in a short series of posts but have not
gotten to it, short of a collection of notes; time and commitments are
always a factor. Meanwhile, I have this tidbit and a bit more which is my
first foray into this thought process, and in part, the comment I was going
to make about it in the post that vaporised by the owners action and delete
button.

As Douglas Engelbart wrote back in 1963 or so  "The grand challenge is to
boost the collective IQ of organizations and of society". Others carried
these ideas forward such as Tim Berners-Lee and his vision of the Semantic
Web where "information is given well-defined meaning, better enabling
computers and people to work in cooperation.”

To that, I might add, curating content so that others can shift through
targeted mountains of data to efficiently absorb what interests them; so
that they can in turn synthesize and build upon that data . We don't want
selectively parsed data but rather a democratic system and yet there is so
much data, how do we deliver it with a narrowed window? How do we give
access to data free to stimulate expansion and access for all and yet have
a way to fund those efforts?

Ah, the conundrums we face. Socially generated enterprises require funds ..
some places call those taxes. Do we all want to contribute? Do we care if
bridges fall into rivers? Local folks cannot afford such repairs and
projects. We need larger structures to take care of that.  Some places balk
at the idea of taxes ... and so this leads back to free .... or rather to
sharing what we have. Are we up to it and can we all add to the money pot
to drive it without squabbling about what is important and what is not?

I can imagine how magnificent our house could be if we are all worked on
refining the building blocks.

*Shifting perspectives and the unlearning process; ditching the programming
and software that no longer serves us*  Unearthing the context of
'relationships' and 'meaning'  and then somehow building that bridge to get
a machine to encapsulate and deliver what we know about the world. One
issue is the machine has a hard time linking together information that does
not seem related and the machine works in a step wise fashion ... the
machine is not our brain.

*As to these intricate connections and context from content beyond first
order logic constraints:* We already know from nature how difficult it is
to define a dynamic entity; something that changes as quickly as shifting
sands, something that is in constant motion and evolving .Think, for a
moment about the evolution of language for instance, what a word meant
before, may no longer have the same meaning, what a word is now may have a
different meaning to another culture. Think NOVA the car and no go in
Spanish. Such is the task and it is not easy for the machine and software
as they exist at this moment, particularly the computing gadgets that most
of us have aside or in hand.

In 2001, Hal via Arthur C. Clarke hinted about the direction we are
heading.. we have seen some progress with IBM’s Watson but software and
logic gates may not be enough … perhaps an organic wetware fractal computer
will do the job since nature has been busy at it for some time now; we have
only begun.

#cognitivecomputing <https://plus.google.com/s/%23cognitivecomputing>
#algorithm <https://plus.google.com/s/%23algorithm>   #semanticweb
<https://plus.google.com/s/%23semanticweb>  "





> K
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 7:36 PM, Koreen Brennan <cory8570 at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence, This is one of the chief yields that I personally would like
>>> to get out of this event. I know Michael is very interested as well. We had
>>> planned to set up such a communications forum ourselves but I think all
>>> concerned will be happy to work with whoever wants to help set this up. We
>>> were interested in taking it to a larger group to determine what forum is
>>> best.
>>>
>>> I would be glad to set up a Google+ page for this Permaculture
>> forum/mailing list. That job is appropriate for me. You or someone else
>> really should create a NAPC Google+ page.
>> I would be glad to do that for you and the NAPC and then transfer
>> ownership to you or others or a group. That would be my contribution to the
>> NAPC, which I see as having the potential to become an umbrella
>> organization for the NA Permaculture movement and its convergences,
>> conventions and other expressions of group unity. I have heard some talk
>> about an umbrella organization in NA that would also do this, posts from
>> Scott, Toby, Michael, Jude or others. No idea where any of that went but
>> working with what we have, the NAPC could serve that function until
>> something else more formal and organized comes along. I would like to see
>> an organization with a permanent, robust web presence and a physical
>> location become the top tier Permaculture organization for NA. This would
>> be a repository for the work coming out of the NAPC and a distribution
>> point for the Permaculture Definition and Standards and PDC Standards,
>> content, structure and teacher accreditation documents. Maybe a library,
>> hardcopy and digital could be established somewhere that would serve as
>> beneficiary of libraries of elders wanting to see their collections
>> preserved and used. IF the NAPC could raise enough money this could become
>> a reality. Back to Toby's lectures on raising money to have the ultimate
>> NAPC convention with all bells and whistles, like the new classroom for his
>> colleague's students; this time, a physical location with a world class
>> library. Problem with the library lending books by mail order? Don't do
>> this with rare or very expensive works but require the borrower to post
>> replacement cost to an escrow account, if a replacement can be found in
>> advance. Digitize as much of the collection as possible, within copyright
>> limitations. A funding project: book scanning and digitizing equipment. The
>> biodynamics people digitized more of the Biodynamics Journals and put them
>> online at the Soil & Health Library in Tasmania, along with an enormous
>> amount of extremely valuable out of print literature. My Father was a
>> university rare books curator so I guess that is where I got my interest in
>> preserving valuable information. Once it was just information in print, now
>> it is a universe of digitized material too.
>> Maybe Miekal would be interested in hosting a library at his 40+ acre
>> farm in the heart of organic farming country. He is a webmaster to so could
>> be employed to help with site updates and maintenance.
>>
>>
>>>  I like google+ for many things and I use it extensively. I don't think
>>> it is any less corporate or more secure than Facebook however.
>>>
>>>
>> Facebook is awful, useless and a waste of time. I coul care less about
>> the security issues, i.e. the spying, etc. No problem. You can configure
>> your G+ & GMail accounts to be plenty secure. What you really have to worry
>> about these days is identity theft, passwords, vital account logins, not so
>> much intelligence gathering. Google is plenty corporate and commercial but
>> there is plenty of space for people like us to get our work done with ease
>> and security.
>>
>>
>>>  I think it is really important to document some of these things, and
>>> to have these conversations, and perhaps a neutral body like NAPC could
>>> execute this, and actually get funding for it. Or we could do it together
>>> as a group effort, for free. Or ?  One way or
>>>
>>
>> YES, YES, YES.!!!
>>
>>
>>>  other, it needs to happen, I think!
>>>
>>> I think it has already happened. The cow is out of the barn. The sun
>> shines and the land is fertile. Let's do it.
>> I will have a big look at a Google+ page for this list.
>>
>>
>>>  Koreen Brennan
>>> www.growpermaculture.com
>>> www.northamericanpermaculture.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:08 PM, Lawrence London <
>>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Koreen Brennan via permaculture <
>>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Jason - that is sweet! I think this conversation is a needed
>>> one.
>>>
>>> I feel that there is quite a bit that we could do to improve the design
>>> of how we operate as a movement (and money is only a small part of that),
>>> but in spite of money, or camping, etc, this event is going to be as good
>>> as what we all make it together, and that has a lot to do with the
>>> intention and focus we have, going into it. We have an opportunity to move
>>> things forward to the next level of succession through use of intelligent
>>> design and I would love to see that happen. I know what the people who are
>>> coming to this event are capable of - I felt frustrated at having such
>>> talent all in one place in Cuba and how little that massive resource and
>>> energy was utilized.
>>>
>>> I'm excited to see the conversations happening now, and hope they
>>> continue long after the event. If the convergence acts as nothing more than
>>> a catalyst for broader conversation that addresses some of the tough
>>> issues, and this conversation leads to better design ideas, more
>>> collaboration, and a stronger network and movement, it will be well, well
>>> worth it.
>>>
>>>
>>> A very large amount of that can be accomplished right here in this list
>>> and if it needs reconfiguring or needs more co-owners, lets get that done.
>>> If companion resources need to be created that link directly to discussion
>>> here, that can be done too though there needs to be close linking to
>>> activity and traffic going on here. A Google+ page would be an excellent
>>> place to start. Facebook is out for me as I have permanently canceled my
>>> membership; I urge people not to use Facebook for serious, important
>>> Permaculture discussion; anything else would be better, even Linkdin.
>>> Google+ would be a much better option than a blog except for those with
>>> websites that use them. I could create a Google+ page entitled Permaculture
>>> Forum At Ibiblio; those with G+ accounts could post and the public could
>>> comment. Its all free and works flawlessly. If this is created as an
>>> organization's page then it can have a management team consisting of page
>>> owners and page managers with different access privileges for each group.
>>>
>>> I found a great page that describes "managing a Google+ page as a team":
>>> http://readwrite.com/2011/12/21/how_to_manage_a_google_page_as_a_team.
>>> More: "This week, Google+ enabled up to 50 people
>>> <http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_adds_stream_noise_controls_50_admins_per_pa.php>
>>> at a time to manage Google+ brand pages. Since brand pages are how
>>> organizations manage their presence on Google+, many page owners need to
>>> give multiple team members the ability to edit and moderate. Yesterday's
>>> update
>>> <http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_adds_stream_noise_controls_50_admins_per_pa.php>
>>> not only allows a large team to control the page, it allows transfer of
>>> ownership. So if one person created your page but someone else needs to be
>>> in charge of it, the creator can transfer that power. The Google+ interface
>>> is a little busy, so here's a step-by-step guide for how to change managers
>>> of a Google+ page. Managers have all the same powers
>>> <http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2380625&topic=1710599&ctx=topic>
>>> as owners except for two key things: they can't delete the page, and they
>>> can't transfer ownership. Otherwise, both owners and managers can add and
>>> remove new managers, view the roster of managers (including their email
>>> addresses), adjust the page's settings (like notifications), and, most
>>> importantly, do page actions like post content and edit circles."
>>>
>>> So, this provides us with the ability to delete or edit pages or content
>>> within pages, i.e. posts and comments, as the need arises.
>>>
>>> Also, in combination with Google Drive (Google Docs) and Google Sites
>>> (website) allows us to create archives of discussion threads and documents
>>> in various formats. Google Drive provides space for spreadsheets and
>>> documents created in many other formats. Archives of photos, videos,
>>> YouTube video channel, multimedia, sketches, blueprints, audio (stored in
>>> Sites or Drive or embedded in a Video with a single static image or
>>> slideshow) can be created and stored for free using Google resources.
>>> Having a YouTube channel for the list would be an effective to post videos
>>> made during the NAPC for public viewing. Google+ allows creation of media
>>> galleries within each page, easily accessed by the public and easily
>>> managed.
>>> So as an extension to this mailing list we can have the following:
>>> Google+ page, Google Site, YouTube Channel, Google Drive (Google Docs).
>>>
>>> Come to think of it this might be an excellent way to move beyond this
>>> mailing list to a resource with additional features that are needed by this
>>> community.
>>> Bob mentioned the need for an archive of important posts sent to this
>>> list. All posts sent to this forum are automatically included in the list's
>>> message archives and can be easily and effectively searched using this
>>> system:
>>> Ibiblio PC list message archive search using Google's "site" command:
>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>> Put this in your browser's search window, not in the URL dialog box.
>>> Ex.: site lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture napc
>>> Here is the URL for the Google search results for that:
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=site+lists.ibiblio.org%2Fpipermail%2Fpermaculture+napc&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb
>>>
>>> I will look into getting this set up today and drag Michael and Bob and
>>> anyone else interested along to help with ownership and share the workload
>>> (probably minimal) :-) I hope others will become interested in this G+
>>> extension of the ibiblio PC list. I think it will be fill a stated need and
>>> be a worthwhile venture for all of us. Getting a GMail and Google+ account
>>> is no more difficult than subscribing to this list and I will help anyone
>>> needing it with account configuration related to privacy issues.
>>>
>>> I think that the NAPC will go way beyond the actual event to forge the
>>> frontiers of a new era for Permaculture, globally, on the W/E European
>>> continent and throughout North America.
>>> This list helps as a : -- portal to an expanding global network of
>>> landtech pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
>>> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
>>> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>> nature-compatible
>>> human habitat --
>>>
>>>
>>> So, how can we get the biggest possible yields from this event? Let's
>>> start designing....
>>>
>>>
>>> I have offered one way to help do this above.
>>>
>>>
>>> Koreen Brennan
>>>
>>> www.growpermaculture.com
>>> northamericanpermaculture.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 9, 2014 9:48 PM, Jason Gerhardt <
>>> jasongerhardt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Koreen,
>>> In re-reading my posts I can see how it could sound like I'm being
>>> critical
>>> of NAPC, but I'm (and I suspect no one else is either) not intending to
>>> direct my comments toward NAPC. My apologies if it sounded that way. I
>>> look
>>> forward to a great event in a few weeks!
>>>
>>> Just wanted to clarify that,
>>> Jason
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
>>> maintenance:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
>>> Google message archive search:
>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>> http://www.ipermie.net
>>> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>> nature-compatible human habitat
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
>>> maintenance:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
>>> Google message archive search:
>>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
>>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
>>> http://www.ipermie.net
>>> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>>> nature-compatible human habitat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lawrence F. London
>>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com
>>>
>>> http://www.avantgeared.com
>>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>>>
>>> Skype: lawrence.f.london
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lawrence F. London
>> lfljvenaura at gmail.com
>> http://www.avantgeared.com
>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>> Skype: lawrence.f.london
>>
>
>


-- 
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
http://www.avantgeared.com
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Skype: lawrence.f.london


More information about the permaculture mailing list