[permaculture] NAPC: Scarcity?

Darrell E. Frey defrey at bioshelter.com
Thu Aug 7 21:57:59 EDT 2014


Koreen

Oh no, Watch out... you just called permaculture a movement.... another 
potential can of worms... 

This is comment is sort of tongue in cheek, but not entirely as these 
pages have debated that topic to some extent. 
Personally I do not care if it is a movement, or a convergence or what 
ever. But those that do find much relavance in distinction of terms

Darrell

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey at bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society 
Publishing, 2011

On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 18:16:17 -0700, Koreen Brennan via permaculture 
<permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
Robyn, Thank you much for your clarification and for sharing this 
information. There were very likely some valuable successful actions at 
those early meetings that may still be relevant today. The sequence of 
convergence and then conference sounds like it might have advantages 
for the reasons you mention. I think it is important that the history 
of our movement is more broadly known in our community. 
>  
> Koreen Brennan
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.northamericanpermaculture.org
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 7, 2014 5:03 PM, Michael Pilarski via 
> permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:
>  Jason,
>
> thanks for the sayin'.  How would you design this conversation into 
> the convergence?  I am sure it will be addressed to some extent in 
> various talks and keynotes. Can you focalize a think tank along these 
> lines?  Looking forward to working with you at NAPC.  
> Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
> Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds
>
>
> Sign up for my newsletter at www.friendsofthetrees.net
> www.facebook.com/michael.skeeter.pilarski
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 7, 2014 2:15 AM, Jason Gerhardt 
> <jasongerhardt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This conversation has been very interesting to follow. I’m on vacation, but
> can’t resist a comment or two. For the record, I’m attending NAPC and
> excited. I’m trying not to have hopes, but just be open so I can observe,
> participate, and contribute. 
>
>
>
> I totally hear Toby’s points and resonate with the need to make a more
> professional presentation. I also hear Koreen in saying there are many
> types of people interested in permaculture and therefore many needs/desires
> for a conference/convergence. In thinking through all of this I see a big
> point that is lacking, which is probably the exact reason why we need to
> converge. 
>
>
>
> First, we can’t just look at *needs and yields*. Mollison drew up the
> Analysis of Elements design methodology in a specific way and I think it
> has been too commonly dumbed-down to needs and yields analysis. What are
> missing are *characteristics*. I see it being useful to define the
> characteristics, in the application of a permaculture conference, as *what
> permaculture is*. The needs and yields of a permaculture conference should
> primarily be developed from the characteristics of what permaculture is,
> otherwise we are going to try being everything to everyone, especially if a
> survey is used to identify the needs and desired yields of hundreds of
> people. The defining feature of all of this is that people think
> permaculture is too many different things. We have done a poor job at
> defining permaculture and actually practicing it as it is defined (the
> bigger problem). That is also the stumbling block to attaining greater
> professionalism and thus securing larger projects with larger impact and
> thus securing more secure livelihoods for practitioners. We are most
> definitely still at the point of figuring out what the hell permaculture
> is. And that is probably a good reason to converge. 
>
>
>
> Instead of this we are holding onto the idea of how to spread the
> permaculture gospel. As if spreading the permaculture word is the intention
> rather than doing great work with permaculture. These two things get
> greatly confused in the broad permaculture field (intentionally avoiding
> the word movement as that has only confused things further as I see it). 
> And they are both hampered by the lack of having a solid definition that
> doesn’t have all kinds of trappings and additionals attached to it. 
>
>
>
> Together, all of these things are what I see as preventatives to
> permaculture actually taking off beyond the rural homestead strategies of
> Mollisonian food forest and hugelkultur, which if we’re honest is so
> fucking played. I wish we had more to share in a professional context of
> permaculture application at these conferences (not to say we don’t have
> anything, but there is less than we all know is possible), but why we don’t
> is because we haven’t broadly discovered the identity of the permaculturist
> yet. We’re still off journeying through the hinterlands hoping to stumble
> upon the kernel of truth, when the truth has been right under our nose the
> entire time. That truth is that permaculture has been simply and
> well-defined already. And too few have accepted it and gotten down to
> applying it. 
>
>
>
> I think we forget that “the solutions are embarrassingly simple.” It would
> indeed be embarrassing to hold a conference on what permaculture is, nearly
> 40 years post coining, but I think that’s where we are, broadly speaking,
> unfortunately. 
>
>
>
> Jason Gerhardt
>
>
>
> p.s. this is in no way whatsoever critiquing any one individual nor aimed
> at the organizers of NAPC, which consists of good friends and colleagues. 
> In modern parlance…I’m just sayin’. 
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech 
> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with 
> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and 
> enhanced nature-compatible human habitat 
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech 
> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with 
> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and 
> enhanced nature-compatible human habitat



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