[permaculture] Future Scenarios

Lawrence London lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Tue Dec 24 18:45:59 EST 2013

On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 4:43 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart at gmail.com>wrote:

> The greater challenge I see is the need to
> strengthen the core of what Permaculture is so as to avoid the watering
> down of the whole subject but to strengthen it.

Ah, YES! I* agree completely. Big topic! Onward.
I'll try to develop my ideas on this tonight after I get back from checking
on my mail.

>  I recall the debate we had
> on Aquaponics and Hydroponics where I think from memory only Scott and I
> argued that neither fitted into Permaculture.  This to me is a classic
> example of the watering down of Permaculture. No puns please. One PC
> Principle I respond to most often is "Working with Nature, not against it".
> Often, the complexity of this statement alone is far too mind boggling. But
> the results are more than obvious in every walk of life.

Toby and I are in total agreement about how aquaponics, hydroponics and
soilless plant production methods can be done completely in harmony with
Nature, i.e. Natural Aquaponics. Read up on it;
plenty of information out there. Its all science and the different
environments favorable for hosting robust colonies of beneficial
as well as plants. Aquaponics is an extremely important technology for a
huge number of people especially those with room for a facility but no
garden space
as well as those with farmland. It is totally and completely part of
permaculture and can be integrated into designs and constructed systems
I have the same view of mined phosphate ore; we have to have it; better
that the farming sector have some where it can be applied stored and used
before it is all gone.
Better to make proper use of what we have access to than to do without. In
some cases P can be harvested through recycling and reuse but since we want
to see much more natural food production in our economy then we need at
least some, carefully chosen external inputs. Quarry rock dust is a prime
example; its local, its free and it is an outstanding soil amendment almost
as important as nitrogen.

OK, lets hear the rebuttal. :-)

 MC & HNY, Steve.

And BTW, concurrent with organizing a NA PC convergence how about creating
one online for those who can telecommute but not travel. Bob Waldrop has
often mentioned the need for this.


> I also recognise that Mollison was an extrovert and Holmgren an
> introvert....both opposites that attracted. Mollison certainly used his
> extrovert character to embellish, exaggerate, extrapolate and describe what
> could be....often taken out of context and often too literally. Holmgren
> has developed thinking on many critical inner workings equally as valuable
> from a different perspective.
> So as our leadership evolves to more of a commons with stronger guidelines
> and models and perhaps rewards for excellence and critique on all levels,

YES! Absolutely. This must happen.

> lets keep stimulating the conference, the communication, the debate without
> any restriction or censorship. For IMO the communication if kept open
> assists in this evolution for all the GB&U...communication at all levels
> will be our best tool for future scenarios....including conferences as part
> of communication...conferences at all levels....Steve Hart

That is the statement of the year for the pc world. Communication.

Onward relentless, as Pogo said.


Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura at gmail.com
Skype: lawrence.f.london

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