[permaculture] Ho' lotta hype...Top Secret Water

venaurafarm venaurafarm at bellsouth.net
Mon Apr 8 03:40:57 EDT 2013

On 4/7/2013 5:07 PM, John D'hondt wrote:
> You may very well be right Lawrence but could I make a general remark
> please.
> The argument you use against Glen Atkinson is what they call "ad hominem"
> and is terefore against the rules of any discussion build on logical
> argument.

I failed to wait the recommended 30 minutes in silence before replying.
Atkinson, famous BD person, tells me that the democratically elected 
Allende in Chile "was arming the leftists at an alarming rate and 
Pinochet had to do something about this". This was before the military 
coup. Enter CIA, Kissinger, Pinochet and his right wing thugs. Military 
coup, Allende assassinated, Victor Jara killed, Pablo Neruda killed, 
witchhunt for leftists loyal to Allende, genocide identical to the dirty 
war in Argentina.

It grabbed me differently because I was just like those folks in 
Argentina and in Chile and all over central and south america, seeking 
reform, democracy, a thriving nation and a thriving people. I was not 
political in the sixties and though the civil rights movement was under 
way and in my home town, I did not get involved but had friends who did. 
What happened to our like minded friends in Chile and Argentina I and my 
close friends never knew but would have liked to is unacceptable and I 
will fight for them, in their memory, for the rest of my life.
The sixties hosted an amazing cultural renaissance around the world. 
Music has a lot to do with it, John. Talk about vital energy driving you 
entirely to another plane of existence. I played Flamenco guitar, the 
old, traditional style, studied from a famous Gypsy guitarist in NYC who 
learned from an old master. Its like Norwegian Hardanger fiddle music 
which never changes, never is diluted, and is pure from century to 
century. I was totally inspired by high Andes folk music, song, tortoise 
shell mandolin, harp, guitar, beautiful as the wind coursing through a 
high mountain pass, music of the people, music for the people. Some 
Kurdish singing almost identical to Flamenco song, Cante Jondo, deep 
song. Gods and Demons of Bolivia, Los Incas, Joys and Sorrows of Andalucia.
It is another world.
I'll leave this subject on a positive note......

> In the Middle Ages before you could start at a European University you got a
> year long grinding in the rules of logic discussion. We have made a huge
> step backwards since those days in logical discussions and that is not a
> good thing. And it is most often used by TPTB.

That is just too cool for words. Sometimes I like to think I can put 
myself back in history by several centuries and experience life as they 
did back then.

You should watch the NOVA movie on:
Antikythera mechanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You would appreciate the magnificent achievement in science and 
technology this time machine represents. They tried to predict the 
future with it. They needed to know when certain astronomical events, 
especially rare and infrequent ones, would occur in order to 
successfully plan their activities according to the omens. The movements 
in this machine were able to include the variations in the elliptical 
orbit of the Moon around the Earth.
Some of the researchers analyzing and reproducing this mechanism think 
that Archimedes invented its original version. It may have been refined 
and manufactured by the Greeks and further refined by Islamic 
mathematicians. Its movements were duplicated in European clocks
at a later date. You would enjoy the NOVA movie about this remarkable 

> And before you ask, If I had been in Argentine during the dirty war I would
> have had a serious chance of getting killed myself. Does not mean that you
> have to be less critical if I say something about something else.

The counterparts of the victims in other countries were lucky to escape 
the same fate.

I just don't get it when someone at the heart of the biodynamics 
movement makes a statement like Atkinson's. Maybe he didn't realize what 
he was saying but his words were clear. I hope he is just a BD 
consultant and never a fascist pig. Maybe he will have an epiphany.

Don't we need to be eternally vigilant and do our part to make sure
the events in Chile, the Dirty War, the Nazi Holocaust, Slavery in the 
USA, the Cambodian Killing Fields, the Chinese Invasion of Tibet and 
subsequent mistreatment of the Tibetan people, mistreatment of the 
Tamils in Ceylon, the Kashmiris, the Bangladeshis, the Uruguayans, 
Guatemalans, Hondurans and any other places around the world where 
innocent people are oppressed in the name of exploitation of their 
nation's resources, never happen again. This goal is part and parcel of 
permaculture. This is what the permaculture three ethics are really 
about. The devil is in the details. Permaculture and the three ethics 
are like a virtual clock mechanism, the longer you contemplate and 
observe, the more its workings unfold before you and the more is 
revealed to you how to put it to work for yourself and everyone else.
It is a strange science.


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