[permaculture] Ho' lotta hype...Top Secret Water

John D'hondt dhondt at eircom.net
Sun Apr 7 17:07:28 EDT 2013

You may very well be right Lawrence but could I make a general remark 
The argument you use against Glen Atkinson is what they call "ad hominem" 
and is terefore against the rules of any discussion build on logical 
You can have a mass murdering serial pedophyle but maybe he knows something 
about something that you don't know and maybe he is right on this point. If 
we want to learn something and have a sensible discussion about the point in 
question we should not discard whatever a person has to say just because you 
feel he is a bad person. You may be right that he is a fascist pig but that 
does not mean that he does not know his stuff or has anything to say that 
others could benefit from.

Thing is that this "ad hominem" argument is very popular these days and used 
by all sides. Also against you and me. There are quite a few people who 
think that permaculturists are close to terrorists and they are therefore 
not going to listen to anything any of us has to say.

In the Middle Ages before you could start at a European University you got a 
year long grinding in the rules of logic discussion. We have made a huge 
step backwards since those days in logical discussions and that is not a 
good thing. And it is most often used by TPTB.

And before you ask, If I had been in Argentine during the dirty war I would 
have had a serious chance of getting killed myself. Does not mean that you 
have to be less critical if I say something about something else.


> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Steve Hart 
> <stevenlawrencehart at gmail.com>wrote:
>> both for our benefit. Glen Atkinson taught us that ( 
>> www.bdmax.co.nz)...it. If we want to learn something>> gets deep er and 
>> deeper but its not really top secret ...its working with
>> nature not against it...but one of our principles
> Do you like fascist pigs? Glen Atkinson is a wolf in sheep's clothing, no
> more a biodynamicist or
> natural agronomist than your typical teaparty extremist; he is a fascist
> pig. Sorry about that.
> I found out one evening when in conversation with him on Facebook. The
> subject was the trial of one of Pinochet's
> thug generals or some other fascist nonentty. I can reconstruct our
> conversation fairly accurately. I couldn't believe
> what he was saying. If he were in Argentina at the time of the dirty war 
> he
> would have taken the wrong side when
> the hippies, leftist activists and other alternative intellectuals were
> facing genocide. If he had not become actively involved he would have
> supported what they were doing. This is why I have little respect for most
> of the biodynamics movement. There are shining
> lights like Hugh Lovel and Jean Paul Courtens and many of the Europeans.
> Permaculture is just as deep a discipline,
> probably deeper, and I think  that will become obvious as time passes.
> So, maybe take a closer look at that fellow and what he speaks with his
> forked tongue.
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