[permaculture] Brief comments on Natural Farming

venaurafarm venaurafarm at bellsouth.net
Tue Oct 2 13:29:03 EDT 2012

More interesting observations from Iyo:

[edited by me]
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [fukuoka_farming]
Date: 	Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:48:46 -0000
From: 	iyo_farm <iyo.farm at ymail.com>


The concept and theory of Natural Farming has a far greater circle of
influence into one's own life and the world around us. At this moment,
accepted, it is very weak in the world but if practised on a personal
level requires and creates change in the person and has far reaching


Natural Farming also has a social aspect, the nature of the society of
Natural Farming, its relationship with its close neighbours such as the
Permiesculturists, and opposing cultures such as industrial agriculture.

If someone is to adopt "Natural Farming" as a purely marketing device, I 
would say it is no longer Natural Farming. If "Big Ag" were tomorrow run 
out of fossil fuels and steam wholesale into "Natural Farming" as they 
are currently in Organic Farming ... applying their same politics and 
exploitative mode of operation ... then I would say it is unnatural
farming again.

(Totalitarianism, exploitation of land rights and labor etc are not
Natural Farming)

I think Permaculture and Natural Farming are far too small and intricate
theories for big business to ever be interest but it will come and rob
whatever is of value that it can, and some people will sell out to it
for the money. Again, just as in the wholefoods world, organic farming
and environmental movements.

So the cultures and leaders of these movements are worth watching.

Some people will be unhappy with exacting discussion. They want FNF or
PC to be an escapist dream, a sounds good business device, a cult even.
They don't want to observe closely and question. Imagine if Fukuoka were 
observing this discussion and seeing it as one of his fields, how would 
he deal it?

On 10/2/2012 1:18 PM, venaurafarm wrote:

> On 10/2/2012 11:05 AM, Dieter Brand wrote:
>> There is something about the idea of NF being elitist.  NFers

> The writer was not referring to NF as being elitist..see below.

>> certainly don't have the idea of feeding the people very close to
>> their heart.  Anyways, calling it feudalistic is stretching things a

> He was not referring to NF as feudal. He was addressing another issue,
> within a flamewar, unfortunate circumstances. I extracted this snippet
> because I liked it and thought it to be a gem of wisdom, showing the
> potential of Iyo as a thinker and NF advocate.

> Are you still subscribed to the fukuoka_farming list? It progresses slow
> and steady with much good information, great writing and excellent
> links. Linda Shewan submits useful and interesting posts..

> Do you read the Fukuoka subforum at Permies? I recommend it. Read the
> input from Larry Korn and watch his video. This will inspire you about
> NF and Fukuoka in many good ways. Here's the link:
> permies » forums » growies » fukuoka
> http://www.permies.com/forums/f-104/fukuoka

> And this forum started by Jamie Nichol. I see you are a subscriber.
> Mediterranean Natural Farming
> http://groups.google.com/group/mednf?pli=1

>> little.  Most of all, NF is NOT a "concept".  Thinking of it in terms
>> of a static concept will lead you into the wrong direction.  It is in
>> its very essence dynamic, IF it does exist.  And that is a big if.

> It is certainly that. I must have been practising NF, natural gardening
> and natural landscaping for most of my life. Many concepts, practices
> and disciplines merge within NF.

>> Attaching Buddhist or other labels to it doesn't help either.  Linda
>> was right about the idea of "design" distinguishing NF most clearly
>> from Permaculture.

> They are part of one another, inextricably linked as I see it. NF could
> be considered subjective while permaculture is objective. Permaculture
> seeks to design and implement systems that emulate Nature and become
> natural or NF in their most basic elements.
> NF gives direction to those designs and installation of them.
> Permaculture does not just "seek to emulate Nature" is seeks to be
> nature, harmonious with on site and off site ecosystems, a dynamic
> process, continually changing and self-stabilizing (sustainable,
> regenerative). Permaculture leads to NF and NF provides timeless and
> essential design criteria, not to mention inspiration.
> I am going in a new direction with my farming and web development.
> Whereas before I ignored NF, now I am seeking to convert most of my farm
> to that state while using raised beds and employing minimum as well as
> no till methods.
> Here are my latest online resources. I am excited about developing these
> along with my investigations of soil quality, nutrient balancing and
> nutrient dense cropping and nutrition. Sounds like MF to me.
> I will spend more time on the Google+ page and the Blogger Blog to begin
> with. Maybe you would be interested in joining one or more of these.
> Fukuoka Natural Farming
> New Google resources on Masanobu Fukuoka Natural Farming
> fukuokanaturalfarming site
> fukuokanaturalfarming
> http://sites.google.com/site/fukuokanaturalfarming
> fukuokanaturalfarming group
> fukuokanaturalfarming
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/fukuokanaturalfarming
> fukuokanaturalfarming blog
> fukuokanaturalfarming
> http://fukuokanaturalfarming.blogspot.com/
> Fukuoka Natural Farming Google+ page
> https://plus.google.com/b/110283802853538126401/110283802853538126401
>> Aside from that, it could be pretty much
>> anything.  It presupposes a "dialogue with nature" that will not be
>> confined into the straightjacket of any preconceived "design".
>> Nature is always different, in each place, at each time, for each of
>> us.  There is no one-fit-all solution to it.  That is uncomfortable.
>> That is the challenge.
> That is classic, Dieter. Credit to you. May I use this in my various NF
> webites/groups/blogs?
>> --- On Mon, 10/1/12, venaurafarm <venaurafarm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> This is the portion of his message that I thought was well written and
> important, uniquely expressed.
>>> Original Message -------- Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural
>>> Farming From: iyo_farm <iyo.farm at ymail.com>
>>> This is a genuine question which has been on my mind.
>>> Agriculture for most is not a hobby or elite indulgence, it is a
>>> necessity. It is a necessity for all.
>>> Farming is done by farmer. Farmers live in communities and have to
>>> organize those communities to work. They have to work collectively
>>> and deal with issues that arise.
>>> The concept of Natural Farming goes further than just food
>>> production or business consulting. It is said to be the perfection
>>> of the self and by extension the perfection of the community and
>>> by extension the perfection of the planet.
>>> Actually, this is one of the Buddhist essences of Fukuoka's work.
>>> Therefore, how do we visualize and realize our perfect farming
>>> community?
> That is an open question.

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