[permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues

Oystein Tandberg oystein_tandberg at yahoo.no
Thu May 3 18:03:14 EDT 2012

:-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though, so here are some links, so you can read up:-)  

1. Destructive man made climate change - http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/  

4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html 

best regards

--- Den tor 2012-05-03 skrev Toby Hemenway <toby at patternliteracy.com>:

> Fra: Toby Hemenway <toby at patternliteracy.com>
> Emne: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues
> Til: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Dato: Torsdag 3. mai 2012 13.37
> On May 3, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Oystein
> Tandberg wrote:
> > I don't want to make this a long e-mail; so I'll just
> jump to the conclusions: 
> > 
> Sure, I'll fall for it. Anyone who reads my stuff knows I
> love ideas that overturn the conventional wisdom. And I've
> looked at all the evidence for these statements before, in
> detail, because I am naturally sympathetic to revisionism.
> They are each nonsense.
> > 1. Humans are not in charge of the climate (so the
> permaculture response 
> While it is literally true that no one is in charge of the
> climate, those words are a soundbite straight from
> corporate-funded think tanks. Not being a climate scientist,
> I must rely on experts here, and I tend to side with 99% of
> the world's climate scientists rather than a handful of
> oil-company mouthpieces making zombie statements that will
> not die when disproved. Follow the money: the
> anti-climate-change propagandists work for the carbon
> industry.
> > 2. Exponential human growth (overpopulation) is a myth.
> The human population is doubling at decreasing intervals.
> That is, by definition, exponential growth, so this
> statement is mathematically ignorant. As for it being a
> problem, population growth is now being sustained by fossil
> fuel-based food. Maybe we'll find something else as oil runs
> out, but we are already seeing huge declines in food yields
> from overuse of soils (I did population genetics work for a
> while; I recognize the signs of overpopulation.) Maybe
> having one species use 40% of the Earth's annual production
> is sustainable, but if population doubles again, so does
> that number. Anyone who doesn't think human impact is a
> problem should start drinking from the nearest river, and
> see how long you live. I suggest a great video called
> "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy" as a good look at what
> population growth means.
> http://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy_video1.html
> These last two are way off topic, but they are fun for me.
> > 3. Viruses, as infectious microorganisms, is a myth. 
> Now we're in my field. I did immunology and genetics
> research for 15 years. I have used viruses to cause
> infections in otherwise healthy organisms. Their entire
> genetic machinery is designed to infect; their genes have
> been independently used to cause infections, and to do
> everything needed to infect healthy organisms. They are
> little miracles, cleverly designed to cause infection
> because it they cannot reproduce without infecting a host;
> it's their raison d'etre. Also, it's difficult to explain
> how a killed virus can confer immunity against a live virus,
> even in very unhealthy people, without viruses being a cause
> of infection. 
> > 4. Pasteur was wrong - an infection is always a
> secondary illness; infections arise after tissue has been
> damaged, by malnutrition or intoxication. (PR: enrich the
> blood for good health, like you would enrich the soil for
> good growth)
> People who say this have not read Pasteur. He was not
> "wrong." He knew that otherwise healthy organisms throw off
> infections much faster than sick ones. And I'd be careful
> with statements that include the word "always."
> I suggest getting into the best shape possible and then
> letting an Ebola-sick monkey spray blood on you, or stay in
> a room dusted with with hanta-virus mouse turds. It may
> change your mind about viruses.
> These arguments take advantage of the fact that most people
> have not been taught to do critical thought, and get sucked
> in by fallacious bits of sophistry that match their politics
> and temperament, since they don't have the mental tools to
> properly evaluate them. As Dick Cheney reportedly said, "you
> can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are
> the ones we're looking for." Like I say, I love to upset the
> conventional wisdom, but promoting these dead-wrong, zombie
> arguments can do real harm to real people.
> Now back to the important stuff.
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
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