[permaculture] Amazonian Mushroom Eats Indestructible Plastics

wenshidi at yahoo.co.uk wenshidi at yahoo.co.uk
Sun Feb 5 22:35:17 EST 2012

--- On Mon, 2/6/12, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <venaurafarm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Where does he say he is blaming all the great rural and
> urban and 
> village folk in China, who have fed their population for
> thousands of 
> years, in style. I think he was referring to the CHINESE

Now you are putting words in his mouth.  He said China and only China.
If a non American list member began blaming all the worlds problems on Americans, it is unlikely that others would assume that he meant only the corrupt 1% of the administration and its financial backers.

 You know the one responsible for atrocities at Tienanmen Square,

Tiananmen was not particularly exceptional.  Governments all over the world have a history of such acts to maintain their power.  Just look at what is happening in Syria at the moment.
England and English backed corporations have a long history of such atrocities and the American Military Industry Complex seems to be trying hard to catch up.

 the invasion of Tibet (40% or all Chinese are ethnically Tibetan),

Perhaps you mean 0.04 per cent
There are only five or so million ethnic Tibetans.  Some people estimate that there are 1.8 billion people in China, and more than 90 percent are Han.

>the destruction of all but 15% of Tibetan Buddhist temples and >monasteries, killed many followers of Tibetan Buddhism, relegated the >Tibetan to the status of second class citizens while inviting in trash >culture boom box carrying Han Chinese yuppies and the Chinese >government exploits the natural resources of Tibet without sharing with >the native Tibetan people, a government who sent border guards to Tibet >who shot in the back and killed a Tibetan Buddhist nun on a high >country mountain trail on her way to safety in Nepal.

Such acts are not confined to the Chinese authorities.  How many Catholics did Henry VIII murder during the formation of the Church of England?  How many Native Americans were butchered during the colonisation of America?  How many 'Indians' were killed as the Spanish conquered the new world?  How many Iraqis died in their so called liberation?

Please correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you have neither been to China nor Tibet.
For many years I lived in the coastal cities before moving up into the Tibetan foothills.  On the coast I was constantly bombarded with propaganda from both sides, the anti Tibetan propaganda of the communist party, and the anti Chinese propaganda of Hollywood.  Only when I started to live among Tibetans did I realise that the Hollywood story was the one that was more far fetched.
His Holiness is an exceptional figure, just as Gandhi was an extraordinary Indian.  Most Tibetans are surly and aggressive.  Their personal habits are even worse that the Han (if that is even possible) and they have a well deserved reputation for brawling and knife fights.  This is when they are not arranging dog fights or drinking themselves into a coma.  The women are often very similar.  In Yunnan, most of the other minorities were and still are afraid of the Tibetans with their warlike tendencies, and it is only the Naxi that do much dealing with them, they being aggressive heavy drinking types themselves.
> That's where the blame lies. Corrupt government thugs. Same
> in nearly every country of the world.

Good so finally we agree on something ;-)
We need to rise about national differences and stop letting the powerful divide us.
I will go out of my way to correct Chinese when they start blaming the west for all their problems, but what is the point if westerners are simply going to blame 'China' in return.
We all need to remember that an eye for an eye makes everybody blind.
> > the planet's ecological woes? In the west, factories
> all kinds have been belching out toxic fumes and polluting the water
> for more than a century, and yet somehow, China is going to get all the
> blame? Where
> Nobody but a fool would blame China alone. And you should
> already know that.

I did not see anybody else mentioned in the statement below.

>> Found this minutes after I was ranting with one of our PDC students
>> about Polyurethane foam off-gassing and toxic plastic stuff from
>> China!

To what other nation is he referring?

> When they can decide not to go that route, repress their
> people, steal all the profits for the 1%, corrupt and pollute
> their country for profit alone and they decide to do that anyway, who > is to blame? 

Looking around you could be describing the majority of countries in the world today.

> Them. And us for helping them and buying their products,
> which BTW are going up in price as the 99%'s buying power goes down.

> And there is the issue of copyright violation and product design theft > by Chinese industrialists and manufacturers which is not a trivial
> issue.

Agreed, in the field of creativity, copyright is the barbed wire fence and should be abolished as soon as possible.  Patenting is theft of public property and also needs to go.  Proprietary is Dead.  Long Live Open Source.
> > Putting the blame on one race or nation is not helpful
> and certainly
> He did not. You put words in his mouth as you did once
> before, recently.

>> "Found this minutes after I was ranting with one of our PDC students
>> about Polyurethane foam off-gassing and toxic plastic stuff from
>> China!"

What other race or nation is mentioned in the above sentence?
Which words did I put in his mouth?
I accept that it might have been a slip on his part and that he might have been thinking about greedy industrialists and amoral corporations but this is not what he wrote.
> If there was ever a group of people who fully appreciate
> traditional 
> Chinese culture it is the people in this list. The links to
> galleries of 
> pictures of rural China and Chinese traditional farming is
> an education 
> itself.

And yet a moment ago you describe the same Han Chinese as 'trash culture boom box carrying yuppies'
Urban Chinese were nearly all rural peasants just a decade or two ago.
> > does not fit in with permaculture principles. There are
> scores of
> > protests and demonstrations taking place every single
> day all over
> > the People's Republic and we should be supporting these
> forward
> > thinking individuals, not demonising the entire country
> carte
> I agree completely. Please post news about these
> demonstrations with 
> some background information about the people involved and
> where they 
> live and why they are involved.


"In 2010, China was rocked by 180,000 protests, riots and other mass incidents—more than four times the tally from a decade earlier. That figure, reported by Sun Liping, a professor at Tsinghua University, rather than official sources, doesn't tell the whole story on the turmoil in what is now the world's second-largest economy."

I would happily point you to news sources that cover such events but I doubt that other listers would appreciate hearing about them on what is after all a permaculture list.
> > blanche. I suppose it is much easier to rant at a
> boogey man that is
> > thousands of miles away than one that lives next door.
> Count me in with one hundred percent support of all these
> protect movements in China, that yo describe. Where do we find out
> more about these in order to keep up and read news about them?

The best place for you to start might be The River Runs Black by Elizabeth Economy.



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