[permaculture] List status, update.

Cory Brennan cory8570 at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 5 17:06:13 EDT 2010


This sounds good, thank you for creating these parameters. 

Question, what is the policy for removing someone from the list? Does unmoderated mean that anyone can say anything and there is nothing that will get them removed? The only objection I would have to this would be spamming or someone who was obviously here only to disrupt and insult people. 

I've been on a number of lists where they had various gradients before someone was removed. It helped reduce controversy about it because the parameters are clear up front and everybody knows what they are. 

Below is one example from a list I was on which is a bit elaborate but it really is a pretty thought out and fair justice system which keeps the peace of the community by eliminating the most inflammatory encounters. I've been told that when the internet was younger, there were two kinds of lists, ones that had some rules and ones that did not, and a lot of the ones that had no rules of conduct or parameters were full of flaming, hate speech, insults, fights, threats, etc, and seemed to attract those people who wanted to do mainly that. Pretty much a barroom brawl types of atmosphere. The lists that had some sort of "rules" had all levels of moderation from severe to almost none, and they generally got more done. 

I've been on a number of lists (not permaculture, other subjects) that had some pretty workable parameters for smooth and fair operations, with an element of people care.
The rules of one of the less restrictive were very simple:
1. No flaming, no personal insults, debate is allowed but keep it to the topic - nothing personal. And no spamming, defined as only being here to sell something and continuing to post sales pitches. That is really the only rule.
2.  Suggestion: Try to treat each other with respect; use the list as forum for the free exchange of ideas and information, not to work out one's personal issues on other people. There is no need to censor ideas if people can respectfully discuss them with one another. The exact point where that line is crossed is where people start insulting one another and making it personal.  There is a discipline to discussing contrary views without getting personal; it can be rewarding to cultivate it.   
3.  Violation of rule #1 will get  a.  A warning that you have crossed the line  b. If it continues, a warning that you will be removed from the group if you persist with the behavior.  This includes letting the person know exactly how they crossed the line - what they said that was a personal insult.  c. Suspension from the group for two weeks, as a cooling off period  d.  If the person comes back and continues the behavior, he gets another warning.  e.  If he continues, he is expelled.   f.  The group can set up an appeals board if they want to, with three people on it who are not the moderator who can determine if the expulsion was warrented g.  If the person responds to part "a" and stops insulting for a period of time, they get to start over at part "a" next time.  It isn't required that people are perfect, just that they listen and try to control themselves. 
People seem to feel it's ok to talk to each other much more harshly on the 'net than they might in person. If flaming and insulting were chronic behavior in a community, someone might take the person aside and try to work with them, so they could find a way to communicate without creating problems for the group. Some on-line lists become like a community, with a lot of support and humanity. There are some really great people on this list who add to that sense, for me.  It isn't necessary that a discussion list do that, but it might be appropriate, considering what we all stand for.  
Best, Cory

--- On Tue, 10/5/10, Lawrence London <permacultureforum at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Lawrence London <permacultureforum at gmail.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] List status, update.
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 1:10 PM
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