[permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas"

Thomas Paul Jahn tpj at life.ku.dk
Wed Oct 21 02:32:31 EDT 2009


Sorry, but in my eyes this is not permaculture at all. As long as he wants us make believe that we will be driving our cars and lorries on alcohol in substitution for oil this is insane.
With large production of alcohol from crops we directly compete with food. Using "waste organic material" (second generation biofuel) for alcohol production is not an alternative either. After reading Fukuoka it was clear to me that straw HAS TO BE used for mulch and cannot be taken out of this direct cycling. 
It should always be possible to generate some minor amount of biofuel, so the methode in principle may be interesting. But not for large production. Transportation will only go as human powered or electric human powered hybrid.
cheers
Thomas

>>> katey culver <newtribe at hughes.net> 21-10-09 2:23 >>>
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop at cox.net> wrote:
At the Financial Permaculture summit in 2008, one of the groups worked
on a concept for a farmer-owned cooperative that would make fuel from
local production for use in local production...

Additionally, prior to the event the hosts of the Financial Permaculture
summit had brought David Blume to talk to the Chamber of Commerce of Lewis
County (county where Financial Permaculture event was held) and based the
Ethanol Production track of the workshop on the ideas promoted in David's
book.  The people who came to lead that track are the principles in the
company Pesco-Beam.  You can see work on ethanol production at
http://www.pescova.com/biofuel_production/ethanol_production.shtml

They have been in the ethanol production business since 1980 and have a
permaculture perspective.  They were loaded with good energy and great
information.  I think they are very approachable so i would recommend a
phone call to them to talk if you are interested in the pursuing this
avenue.

Katey

-- 
Katey Culver
www.earthandstraw.com

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop at cox.net> wrote:

> At the Financial Permaculture summit in 2008, one of the groups worked
> on a concept for a farmer-owned cooperative that would make fuel from
> local production for use in local production with some surplus available
> to be sold to the community, another useful product being the "brewers
> grains" which would go to dairies in the area, all of whom would be in
> the cooperative too.  I think at that level, alcohol production from
> biomass makes economic, energetic and permacultural "sense".  Giant
> factories using corn to make ethanol for use across a continent is
> clearly not a net-energy activity.  Corn is probably one of the worst
> things to make into alcohol.
>
> Bob Waldrop, OKC
> http://www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org
>
> Leo Brodie wrote:
> > Do any of you have any thoughts or experience with David Blume and his
> advocacy of alcohol (aka ethanol) as fuel? He touts himself as a
> permaculturist (he owns the domain permaculture.com), and does speak in
> terms that make some ecological sense (local production, re-applying the
> mash back to the soil), but I'm not sure it all adds up.
> >
> > He makes it sound like alcohol burns completely clean, but I've found
> academic research (e.g
> http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/BiofuelQA/Materials/ClimateHealth.pdf)
> that says otherwise.
> >
> > I'm asking because I have never heard any mention of his work in
> Permaculture circles, but if his claims have any merit we should be trying
> this stuff.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Leo Brodie, Seattle
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