[permaculture] the next generation of Pc Design resources.

Lawrence F. London, Jr. venaurafarm at bellsouth.net
Tue Nov 24 23:44:38 EST 2009

>> Back to square one, a host, ibiblio. Free and very nice. You would have
>> a shell account there to do work. Lots of resources to use. I have an
>> account there now. I own http://www.ibiblio.org/permaculture. We could
>> use that unless our own domain is needed.
> that could be good. what's running on the server, is it a linux box?


> full install privileges? filesystem access? any guarantees on uptime?

Yes (as far as I know). Your own filespace, email, news, html, cgi, 
MySQL, PHP, etc. No Plome. Not to worry about uptime; theirs is a very 
well run, well-backed-up syste with large experienced staff. It is 
partly on the UNC campus and partly at the RTP nearby.

>> There's the beginnings of
>> Wordpress/BBPress/Mediawiki at that location presently. Maybe this could
>> be used also, why not. Mediawiki needs to be reinstalled.
> there is also semantic mediawiki
> http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki

Great! I will be interested in looking at this.

> i haven't even had time to even look at it yet. it could be good, but
> it might end up being easier to 'roll our own'. nevertheless reading
> their manual is on my list because i think they will have solved some
> UI problems. they also have i believe some support for collaborative
> ontological modelling.


>> I own permacultureinfo.com which I will donate. ibiblio would host 
>> that for us
>> for free except we would have to provide our own external nameserver,
>> they provide everything else. If we had a .net, .info or .org  they
>> would provide a complete hosting package, free.
> i have gaianexus.org, which is what i was planning on using.
> gaia: we all know what that means
> nexus: a connection or series of connections linking two or more things

It can be hosted at ibiblio.

>> A person wanting to take a complete inventory of his site can use GIS
>> devices to locate and record site resources during a walkabout (Garmin
>> has some expensive units). Data can be stored in the unit then uploaded
>> to a computer (probably USB) then into the appropriate GIS software.
> this should definitely be an option for the extremely motivated & well
> equiped, but there also needs to be a very simple html interface with
> a simple set of base predicates. i was actually thinking about this
> last night. it may not be necessary to have coordinates at all. it may
> be enough or even better for reasoning purposes for people to be able
> to just say:
> pond closeTo mulberryTrees
> pond farFrom house
> this is enough combined with the needs and yields predicates to do
> some fairly sophisticated reasoning. it may not be a problem
> that these terms are not too strictly defined.

I'll have to think this through a bit...and learn new things.

>> Maybe this data could be uploaded to the PC OWL (O' Wise One) into that
>> global users "home" describing his site; of course as long as that
>> dataset contained at least some information that would be useful to
>> others, i.e. timeless in nature.
> people will be able to enter complete bs, that's a fact of life for
> open systems. but, ontologies have semantics for reification, so that
> people can make statements about statements, i.e. mollison
> thinkItsTotalCodswallopThat (chickens need hippopotamuses) &
> mollison hasAuthority high, therefore it's likely that chooks do not
> need hippos.  imo, figuring out the UI for such a thing is the hard
> part.
>> I don't know what format GIS software...
> there has been a lot of work done on ontologies for gis, which again i
> have not yet looked at properly. probably our needs would be
> quite simple here and met by whatever the going standard is. something
> like http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/. writing triples in this form from
> whatever these things spit out should be fairly trivial.

I will look at this.

>> This is possible!
>> What great prospects. We should do this...
> i think so too, but i'm getting a bit ahead of myself. there's enough
> here for anybody interested to get aquainted with the tools. if you
> are interested in knowledge modelling, learn protege. if you are a
> developer, learn the java libs and clojure (i'll be using clojure
> because it fits the problem perfectly and is a beautiful language, if
> you want me to use php you'll have to pay me, a lot). i need to hit

I hope clojure can be run at ibiblio. They do not, for example, support 

> the books for another solid month or two before anything substantial
> is begun. what i might look into in the near future is installing a
> collaborative ontology editor just for people to start experimenting.
> a caveat, ontology modelling is a hard formal process, and there is
> study involved.

That would be interesting, and work.
>> As I said last time, I need some online platform to host the
>> permaculture and farming resources that I want to develop,
>> text and other media.
> a widely accepted standard for media metadata
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Core

I will read through this.

> here again, we need not reinvent the wheel
>> I am a market farmer with intensely developed
>> land. I want to document what goes on here and put that online.
>> I am into gardening toolmaking also.
> that's great because we will be able to directly see if our ontologies are
> capable of modelling your situation. good acid test


>> Interesting, Swedish for bumblebee is humlans... nice word.
> wonder if this has anything to with the fact they hum?

Could be. When the dragonfly spied humland in the bush he declared
Humbug Bumblebeeste! (a serious insult for a pollinator to be called a 
bug, much less a beeste).


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