[permaculture] Fwd: Copyright Infringement on PERMACULTURE: A Designers Manual

Justin Hahn justin.hahn at gmail.com
Wed Nov 11 00:06:20 EST 2009

Bill Mollison wrote that book. He complied the research and got the
illustrations together and did all the exceedingly difficult things it takes
to get a book published. The ideas, however, aren't his -- at least not any
more, if they ever were, since the permaculture movement could go on without
Mollison and has made a lot of progress since the 80's. But those words are
his words; he wrote that book and he deserves whatever the market will give
If Evan is so interested in Fair Share, then he should write his own
permaculture manual and license that under a Creative Commons license. Then
he can give that away for free instead of stealing someone else's work.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:10 PM, <ktho at comcast.net> wrote:

> Um - no, Evan.
> Violating copyright interferes with Mollison's livelihood and just taking
> something you want, just because you want it smacks of entitlement issues.
> Stop being such an entitled Commie and respect other people's work. You
> don't get to decide for others what they ought to do just because you think
> they ought to do it. It's none of your business what Tagari and/or the
> Mollisons' are doing with their money. MYOB, and stop being such a special
> little snowflake. I doesn't matter that others have also stolen from
> Tagari.
> Their ass-hattery does not give you license to do the same.
> If I'd been Tagari, I'd have taken you for every penny and then some. You
> got off lightly. And stop threatening them with a Twitter campaign. That
> might be construed as admission of guilt for copyright violation, not to
> mention menacing and stalking.
> Kathleen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Evan Schoepke
> Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 6:33 PM
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org; Nicholas Roberts
> Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Copyright Infringement on PERMACULTURE: A
> Designers Manual
>  Ingenio "Patent"
> Campus?<http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/>
> .November
> 10, 2009 . Leave a
> Comment<
> http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/#respond
> >
> (Edit<
> http://punkrockpermaculture.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edi
> t&post=446<http://punkrockpermaculture.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edi%0At&post=446>
> >
> )
> Hello lovely Permies,
> Due to my posting of the entire Permaculture Designers
> Manual,<http://astore.amazon.com/punkrockperme-20> commonly know
> as the permaculture bible, I received a swift take down notice from Tagari
> Publications <http://www.tagari.com/>
> andScribd<http://www.scribd.com/Gaia%20Punk> which
> I respectfully followed.  It is my opinion that this book is so
> *important* that
> it should be made  completely free on all the myriad internets because
> we're
> living in a time of extreme ecological and social crisis and the tools
> needed to fix the crises must be made available to everyone not just those
> with the economic  privilege to afford them.  Please see the letters below
> and also* please comment* if you think the designers manual should be
> liberated onto the internet.  I feel this debate gets at the very heart of
> the permaculture ethic of "fair share" and  I will post any further
> correspondence with Tagari here and elsewhere.
> I'm starting a *campaign on **twitter* <http://twitter.com/gaiapunk>
> advocating
> for the *free release* of the permaculture designers manual. *@gaiapunk
> #permieliberation*
> *ATTENTION: Evan Schoepke*
> Pursuant to 17 USC 512(c)(3)(A), this communication serves as a statement
> that:
> I am the exclusive rights holder (being the Publisher) for the book titled:
> *Permaculture: A Designers' Manual* written by Bill Mollison.
> ISBN 0 908228 01 5 and first published in Australia in 1988 and reprinted
> in
> 2004, 2009 by Tagari Publications, Australia.
> These exclusive rights are being violated by material that has been
> available upon your site at the following URL(s):
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/22260478/Permaculture-D-Manual and
> http://punkrockpermaculture.com/.
> I have a good faith belief that the use of this material in such a fashion
> is not authorized by the copyright holder, the copyright holder's agent, or
> the law;
> Under penalty of perjury in a United States court of law, I state that the
> information contained in this notification is accurate, and that I am
> authorized to act on the behalf of the exclusive rights holder for the
> material in question.
> I may be contacted by the following methods:
> *Phone:* (Aus) 61 + 3 6445 0945
> *Fax:* 61 + 3 6445 0944
> *Address:* 31 Rulla Road, Sisters Creek, Tasmania, 7325, Australia
> *Email:* mollison.lisa at tagari.com
> I hereby request that you remove or disable access to this material now and
> in the future as it appears on your service in as expedient a fashion as
> possible. Thank you.
> Regards,
> Lisa Mollison
> Director
> My reply:
> [image: permaculture
> logo]<
> http://punkrockpermaculture.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/permaculture-l
> ogo.jpg<http://punkrockpermaculture.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/permaculture-l%0Aogo.jpg>
> >
> Okay Tagari,
> the book is gone,
> I have lost the battle,
> however I do know of other places you could find it online for free.  As a
> practicing certified urban permaculturalist I believe this event brings up
> a
> interesting philosophical debate.  This book *is* the permaculture bible
> and
> I know that Tagari publishers is sole legal guardian of it's legacy.  In
> fact I love Tagari, and everything it stands for, what it's doing with the
> money it earns, all of it. But, I still think the book should be released
> onto the internets for free!  Why? Well, because if there is anything Bill
> has shown me it is that we definately don't have the gaurentee of
> permanence to solve the ecological and social crisis that we are facing.  I
> feel that perhaps I come from a new and starkly different generation that
> believes in a type of movement building that allows for the funding of
> projects by lots of people paying a small amount instead of a
> few privileged folks paying a lot of money.  I would really love to read
> Bill's book on fermentation, supposedly his best work, but it's also very
> expensive.  I'm not saying Tagari should let go of all it's copyrights but
> I
> am asking if the time has come for the designers manual to be liberated,
> what do you think?  Someday I'm sure the designers manual will be available
> free in the public commons and that could make a very large impact, lets
> hope that day does not come too late.  Will the field continue to lie open
> to every intellect (*ingenio patet campus*) regardless of income?  I'm
> interested in your response and wish the very best with all the amazing and
> inspiring work your doing now and in the future.
> With the greatest respect for Bill, Lisa, Tagari, and the entire global
> permaculture network,
> Have a fair share day!,
> Evan C. Schoepke
> Gaia Punk Designs
> 713 Division ST
> Olympia WA, USA
> 98502
> thejulianeffect(at)gmail.com
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