[permaculture] Fwd: Mondragon and Permaculture WorkerCooperatives

fdnokes at hotmail.com fdnokes at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 5 23:54:16 EST 2009

Interesting discussion.
The idea that just walked through my mind unannounced a couple of minutes 
before reading this was that upscale eco cohousing communities could easily 
devolve into a monetary society as people face certain frustrations.
I just suddenly saw how it could happen.

On the other side, as woofers in 2007-8, we witnessed that those who had 
idealistically set out to tend the land were now an aging population 
desperately in need of assistance. Is this the type of scenario in which you 
are seeing the exploitation you describe?


From: "Permaculture Cooperative" <permaculturecoop at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:04 PM
To: "Juergen Botz" <jurgen at botz.org>
Cc: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Mondragon and Permaculture 

> Hi Juergen & Permaculture List Folks,
> I would like to see much movement toward Gaia (planetary-scale) 
> Permaculture
> in my lifetime, and am encouraged by the Radical Routes folks, by the
> Mondragon triumphs, by the 10,000 trees folks, and many others, that this
> will happen.
> Nick and I have been researching models for Gaia Permaculture for 9 months
> now.  Our investigations have revealed much promise, but we have been 
> forced
> to acknowledge some hard truths, foremost among them the concerns about 
> how
> cooperatives can survive embedded in a mercenary economic environment, and
> the concerns about inequities observed and reported at numerous 
> Permaculture
> installations worldwide.
> In my view, because they are lacking the infrastructural support that
> society provides "normal" communities, the Permaculture Pioneer generation
> has been forced to fend for themselves, and this can and has resulted in
> hierarchical inequities at their installations.
> In cases of large Permaculture installations where there is familial
> support, such as with David Holmgren and Darren Doherty, and at small
> Pemaculture installations, there doesn't seem to be a problem.  In cases
> where there is not familial or institutional support, an exploitative 
> status
> quo seems to develop at the pioneer institution.
> This is not to criticize any of the Pioneers in any way -- I am deeply
> grateful to all of them and believe that we are profoundly indebted to 
> them.
> We needed these brave individuals to embark on their chosen paths to move
> our society forward.  Instead, this is to acknowledge weaknesses in the
> system so that the current and future generations of Permaculturists can
> address the weaknesses and be an improvement on the previous generation.
> In solidarity, with sunshine, and toward gaia permaculture,
> Kirstie
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Juergen Botz <jurgen at botz.org> wrote:
>> On 11/04/2009 03:26 PM, Permaculture Cooperative wrote:
>> > Our hopes for a global permaculture cooperative have been tempered
>> > by [...] our observations of the dysfunctional hierarchical
>> > relationships which predominate at established Permaculture farms in
>> > Australia
>> You don't give any further details about your observations of these
>> dysfuncational hierarchical relationships.  I'm curious to know more...
>> how are they hierarchical, and how are they dysfunctional?
>> :j
> -- 
> Nicholas Roberts & Kirstie Stramler
> skype permaculturecoop
> email permaculturecoop at gmail.com
> phone +1 415 670 9710
> --
> plans http://gaiapermaculture.com
> video http://Permaculture.TV
> --
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