[permaculture] permaculture site variety

Jocelyn Campbell jocecampbell at gmail.com
Thu Dec 17 15:43:22 EST 2009

In my opinion, Paul is actually being a bit humble in this thread. (Strange
for Paul to be humble eh? :-) ) He might call himself an evil tryant and a
large obnoxious man, but I think he's left out what could be called a softer
side. Paul  is *very* open to collaboration and very skilled at building
online communities. 40 or so volunteers help run his mega
javaranch.comsite. It's a massive community. I've met javaranch
volunteers, several of
whom have become Paul's good friends, and they are very cool people who
enjoy both javaranch and Paul very much.

At permies.com, Paul has several other volunteer administrators helping set
up the wiki and keeping the spam out of permies and I'm sure he would be
open to more. It's definitely not all about Paul, as it might seem if you
don't take a second look. It's a community.

As a lurker/newbie on this list, it seems a lot folks are giving a ton of
ink to building community and spreading the word about permaculture, but the
irony is it sounds very dischordant to me. And, franky, I don't even read
most of it because the opinions and sheer volume (without enough tangible
facts or concrete/doable idea sharing) are that unappealing to me. Can't we
all just work together a bit more? I think that's what Paul is trying to do.



On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:15 PM, paul wheaton <paul at richsoil.com> wrote:

> uh-whelp ....
> I have over 20 years of experience in managing on-line forums.  The
> biggest ones being at javaranch.com with 2 million visitors per month.
>  I throw this out there in the hopes that it might put a little more
> weight behind my words.
>   I would think
> that your valuable time would be better invested in all sorts of other
> things where the end value per time spent will be much larger.
> That said, I will be glad to be wrong.  And if you are still
> determined to move forward, I'll support your efforts.
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr.
> <venaurafarm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > paul wheaton wrote:
> >> I guess the reason I bring this up is that it seems odd to re-create
> >> what already exists.
> >
> > What I plan to put online will be a perfect companion to this list and
> > offer much needed features that this list does. Read my previous post
> > about this. This will be mostly limited to people in this list and will
> > be on topic about permaculture only.
> >
> >> But for a forum to be of value, it needs regular visitors to keep the
> >> discussion flow rolling.  So if you divide it, then it is possible to
> >> dip below the threshold and peter out into oblivion.
> >
> > Case in point, your creating a second forum and me a third. I don't
> > think any of the three will dilute or detract in any way from the others.
> >
> >> The australian forums are the primary forums right now.  I would much
> >> rather see energy put to them than to start up yet more forums and get
> >> more fragmentation.
> >
> > If that's what you want to I suggest you follow your instincts. I prefer
> > to use a forum hosted in the USA by Americans for Americans, and anyone
> > else who wants to use it. There are advantages to having the web
> > resources you use frequently located in your country or better yet
> > hosted by local organizations, in our case, at ibiblio. I like knowing
> > who is doing the hosting and who does administrative tasks and how
> > secure that situation is for the long haul.
> >>
> >> My forums (permies.com) started before I knew about the australian
> >> forums.  And I created them mostly to reduce the number of emails I
> >> was getting from people asking me about all sorts of horticultural and
> >> homesteading stuff.   As the forums grew, I separated "the community"
> >> from my personal rant space.
> >
> > That is a perfect case for your creating permies.com. It serves a useful
> > purpose.
> >>
> >> It is an accident that there are two large forum sites now.  Frankly,
> >> I cannot think of any great philosophical differences between the two
> >> other than one is heavy on aussies and the other is heavy on yanks.
> >>
> >> I guess what I'm trying to do is to dissuade you from introducing
> >> another forum.
> >
> > I plan to go ahead with this, an install of SMF at ibiblio. Read again
> > my reasons for doing this, a small highly focused forum with graphics
> > and multimedia where you know your community (the people already in this
> > list) and you know where to find the information you need and follow
> > thteads your are interested in making the best use of your time spent
> > there.
> >>
> >> I suppose that if there are things that you don't like about the other
> >> two (too much fluff; too much hostility; too stupid; too hard to use
> >> ...), then, well, yeah, intentionally creating a new forum makes good
> >> sense.
> >
> > Those are all important issues; I would prevent all those negatives from
> > happening from the start. As I said it will be managed and focused just
> > like this list. I can also have multiple administrators, each managing
> > one or more forum groups that he is especially interested in or has
> > expertise in. This would keep things on track. I have seen it work on
> > other forums.
> >
> >>> While this list has 923 members, the forums at permies.com currently
> >>> has 5012 members.  For the month of october, the forums at permies.com
> >>> had 29,150 unique visitors - the difference being that there are a lot
> >>> of people that read and don't post.
> >>> (we've actually had over 25,000 member accounts, but I've deleted most
> >>> of the accounts under suspicion of them being spam accounts)
> >
> >
> > LL
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