[permaculture] OT Re: the gardener's shadow falls both ways

fdnokes at hotmail.com fdnokes at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 13 19:20:59 EST 2009

The point is not where the message comes from, but what the message is...

(If you required that I think of myself as a body, then I do not qualify for 
this list!  If we do not allow the diversity to speak up without feeling 
that it is all representative of who we all are, then that is a form of 
censorship, is it not?)

I understand your feelings about newly joined people...
However, I have concerns about the loss of enrichment, meaning and aliveness 
for those currently present.
The loss of life to the list.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
I appreciate LL's description of your long valued service to this list, and 
it's life without me around...

Hopefully any confusions can be cleared up.  Life has a way of providing 
what is needed.
(I'm curious how you'll feel about that last statement)

I guess we're getting to the part where it's interesting to trip over each 
other's belief systems.
No worries.

It's all 'grist for the mill'

From: "Lee Flier" <leeflier at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:14 PM
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] OT Re:  the gardener's shadow falls both ways

> fdnokes at hotmail.com wrote:
>> The word 'magical' should not offend you, as it relates only to the
>> 'quality' of being.
> It doesn't offend me.  I don't think you read my post too carefully.
> The word "magical" is not what I complained about at all.
>> To work with
>> land and with plants is to work with the mystery of life at some of its
>> deepest levels.
> I agree with this, as I've already said several times in this
> discussion.  What I don't agree with is recommending a book that
> requires belief in a discorporate being who is channeled through someone
> else's body.
>> As to science, those that travel deeply into fields of science are 
>> witness
>> to the deepening of the mystery, not the stripping of life from it.
> Again, we agree.  But that doesn't mean a scientist would read a Seth
> book and take it seriously.
>> So, before you imply censorship, think again.  Some of your ideas are
>> getting rather 'crusty' and to give yourself license to censor, and 
>> limit,
>> will only make them more so.
> I'm not trying to "censor" anything.  If you don't see the reasoning
> behind what I'm saying, then by all means carry on however you wish.
>> I was not aware that anyone was playing 'teacher' on this list, but 
>> thought
>> that everyone was here for their own purposes. If that purpose is merely 
>> to
>> gather students, I would not say that would be a list that I would feel 
>> as
>> comfortable in as one where everyone felt that had something to gain from
>> some of the posts, and knew which ones they could ignore.
> I don't think it's so much that anyone's "playing teacher" as that
> sometimes we can lose sight of the fact that there are folks joining
> (who may not participate much if at all) who are entirely new to
> permaculture, and I happen to feel it's important to consider these
> folks.  Sure, different people have different purposes in being here, me
> included.  But in any public forum I do try to consider the impact of my
> words on others who may not be part of the discussion.  You may or may
> not feel the same way, but you can expect my responses to be in
> consideration of those folks.
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