[permaculture] personal land rights vs private property -some practical questions to Rain

negiliblek negiliblek at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 12 21:39:55 EST 2008

Hi Rain,

I'm interested in how your company is setup and its by-laws because
there is a piece of property that I may attempt to setup in
a fashion in which the land use is clearly oriented towards
permaculture with as little as mechanized technology as possible.

I've seen some intentional communities' general structure but I've
never had the chance to ask someone these types of questions directly.

So, if you feel like responding, here goes:

1- What type of legal entity is it (LLC, C-corp, or a non-profit)?

2-Assuming the land is 100% paid off, how is the each person's financial share determined as they join (past purchase value, current tax appraisal, third party appraisal)?

3- When another person(s) wishes to share the land, how much do they
put down, what payment periods, and what problems/solutions did you
discover along the way regarding these methods?

4- Assuming there are two parties who've paid their share which comes
to 100% of the property; when a third party comes along and wishes to
join to use, say 10% of the land, how is this third party
accepted/rejected and who gives up the 10% to make room for the third

5-When a party leaves/stops using the land, what happens (is the party
refunded all monies or is all monies forfeited and who gets the
forfeited money)?

6- Say a party is accepted, moves in, gets half their work on their
land done, then leaves the land half finished and a bunch of rotting
building material behind -how is this dealt with?

7- What if one person wants to grow thistles and everyone else is against this?

To all of those who pay "taxes", you don't own your property -you rent it. Try not paying and find out what happens -you'll be evicted. 

Yes, that ties you to a given system whether you want to support that system or not (slavery?); whether you like sending your money to kill people you've never met or not.

Maybe there are people out there that need killing, but I kinda like to have a DIRECT say so before I buy that particular bullet.  If your State's National Guard is killing, you're paying. If you honesty believe GW was elected both times, go ahead and tell me my vote against him was a direct say so, but then you'd be thinking we in the US live in a democracy, not a Republic (for which it stands, one nation under God, etc). Yes, I had a Russian roommate who spent 5 years in a gulag near the Chinese border trying to get to the United States. He was the one who told me the US is more of a police state that the former USSR after living here a few years; no he COULDN'T return home.

Yes, you will have to spend a portion of your work day (?Slavery -work against your will?) doing that killing (through your financial contribution) as long as you're tied via property taxes (rent) to that system.

Here's my specific point just in case somebody wants a specific point: If private property ends up meaning people have no where to live (no ground to stand on, or lie down upon) unless they pay rent/taxes to someone, then all people in that system are slaves to that system whether they want to be or not -simply by existing, by being born, by breathing air. And will be forced to work only in a way found acceptable by that system, whether they want to or not (this is slavery's definition -to work against one's will, to be a commodity of labor in order to have a place to exist in).

To be homeless is to be illegal in the US. To be not homeless means you're supporting actions you may find heinous whether you want to or not. If this is what a system of private property leads to, I'm not too sure I want to keep my property private.

And if you're still feeling smug, like I did about my 35 acres, wait until your property taxes get raised to the point where only the super rich can pay property taxes. Then tell me how you love private property systems (who knows, maybe you'll still tell me, like an abused spouse, that its not so bad, it could be worse in other systems). It's already happened to some family farms in this country and in some cities on both coasts in the US (and I'm not talking about prime property in Malibu).

Luckily, there is still a solution in the US, non-profits can own land and not pay taxes. But that maybe taken away from us as was attempted in the late 1990's in Denver  -a ballot initiative to make all non-profits pay property taxes. In direct democracy, this initiative lost by 95% (who knows what the other 5% were thinking) -but if a similar Federal bill gets passed in our great Republic and our Representatives get lobbied/bribed just right, all of us will live in a world similar to "Sten", government by the Corp/for the Corp, and the myth of private property for the individual will burn like a fevered dream ...."if only I could find a way to get mega rich enough, then I could be free enough to own a piece of my own land".

 And if you can't figure out how I made the leap from non-profits being forced to pay taxes to Government by Corps and the loss of the individual to own property, just figure my thinking is really twisted -you'll sleep better at night. 

That's right, just take a little snooze and figure it ain't possible to get from point A to K. You'll feel better and we won't get in any nasty jabbing fests. Otherwise, do your own thinking and see how I got there.  If you just can't -you can't. Any amount of talking and typing by me isn't going to get you there.


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