[permaculture] permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5

trevor william johnson john2116 at msu.edu
Thu Mar 6 11:43:04 EST 2008


in line with the ethic earth care no not introduce a possibly  
damaging species when it is unnecessary. in the climate of Michigan a  
1meter cubed pile is necessary to hold the thermal mass  you may need  
a larger one in...where are you?...a lid should be unnecessary  
because the pile insulates itself.  however blocking it from wind and  
adding thermal mass can only help.  from my interpretation of your  
images  your pile is much smaller than that and as a result your pile  
will have trouble heating.  i observe your desire for rich compost  
with worm castings.  i suggest using a local worm you find in the  
area if you truly need the castings in the compost. otherwise use the  
red wriglers in a compost bin in your house and use the castings as a  
direct fertilizer or mix it in with your compost after you have  
separated the worms (which is easy to do...move all the mass in the  
worm bin to one side and lay a new foundation with carbon material  
(paper wood etc) and food scraps they will naturally migrate when all  
their food is gone then take out the finished half as fertilizer).

trevor
On Mar 5, 2008, at 7:18 PM, Martin Mikush wrote:

> Thank you Steve and Trevor,
>
> How critical is the wiggler migration possibility ? There is not so  
> much too
> eat in the little garden around .?
> ... So maintaining constant temperature is also important ...  
> well , it may
> be funny , but I set on the bottom of the crate four big stone  
> pavers - say
> for thermal mass ...
>
> and .. I hav eto figure better lid design , because is not well  
> insulated
> yet ...
> still in progresss.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM, <permaculture- 
> request at lists.ibiblio.org>
> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Green Homes???? (Harmon Seaver)
>>   2. Re: carbon sequestration (trevor william johnson)
>>   3. Re: Penalizing Farmers (Trudie Redding)
>>   4. Re: Penalizing Farmers (Harmon Seaver)
>>   5. You Tube, Keyline Design, Sustainable Agriculture &Carbon
>>      Sequestering , Lecture With Darren Doherty Santa Barbara Nov/07
>>      (Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network)
>>   6. Compost crate from cargo pallettes (Martin Mikush)
>>   7. Re: Compost crate from cargo pallettes (trevor william johnson)
>>   8. Re: Compost crate from cargo pallettes (Trudie Redding)
>>   9. Compost crate from cargo pallettes (steveread at free.fr)
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:20:58 -0600
>> From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture] Green Homes????
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <47CDAF2A.5000406 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/us/04homes.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>>
>> --
>> Harmon Seaver
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:41:20 -0500
>> From: trevor william johnson <john2116 at msu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] carbon sequestration
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <905F24B3-6796-40AE-8A1A-C8F9F2F5E8B7 at msu.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> This past weekend i attended the organic conference in east lansing
>> michingan.  the keynote speaker was Tim LaSale who is the CEO of the
>> rodale institute.  he presented on research that quantifies the
>> amount of carbon sequestered in the soil by using sustainable/organic
>> techniques along with a tool called the roler/crimper to create a
>> mulch on the top of the soil from the winters cover (i saw vetch and
>> rye used).  the crops are then planted through the mulch with a no
>> till seeder/transplanter.  the numbers were as high as 1500 pounds
>> per acre.  he suggested tat the government should create a program
>> that pays farmers to use these techniques and sequester carbon rather
>> than sell whatever they are growing for less than the cost of
>> production through subsidies.    he was really inspiring and i am now
>> going to create my own version of the roller crimper to use in a 2.5
>> acre community garden i participate in.
>>
>> Regarding Pimental,  LaSale quoted him a few times but not for data,
>> just for conversations about the roller crimper.  i have found
>> pimental to be a double edges sword in sustainable ag.  i have seen
>> his ethanol research and read what he has to say in regards to coal
>> and it is clearly crap.  However just like an allelopathic plant like
>> the black walnut...nothing is all bad or all good and pimentel
>> clearly has two distinct faces on sustainability.  does anyone on the
>> list know pimental and is willing to comment on his character?
>>
>> trevor
>> On Mar 4, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Harmon Seaver wrote:
>>
>>> Darren Doherty wrote:
>>>
>>>> People might like to know that one of my Marin County (CA) clients
>>>> has
>>>> sponsored Dr David Pimental of Cornell University (through CFA) to
>>>> conduct a
>>>> wide ranging monitoring study on a range of different methods
>>>> applied by CFA
>>>> farmers (across the US) that they use to increase Soil Organic
>>>> Carbon (such
>>>> as Managment Intensive Grazing or MIG, Keyline Plowing, Soil
>>>> Amendments,
>>>> Compost/Compost Teas, and just about everything else that we
>>>> think, but have
>>>> not necessarily quantifiably, increases SOC.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    Your clients need to be informed that David Pimental was  
>>> exposed by
>>> the investigative journalist Jack Anderson as being a fraud who was
>>> actually drawing a regular salary from Mobile Oil when he did his
>>> phoney
>>> studies on ethanol production. Pimental even admitted it during a
>>> radio
>>> interview. David Blume, in his great book, "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
>>> which
>>> is about the permaculture way to energy independence, spends some  
>>> time
>>> exposing the fraud in Pimental's "study". It's also quite telling  
>>> that
>>> Pimental publishes a lot of his work in a "peer-reviewed" journal  
>>> that
>>> is the mouthpiece of the mining and coal industry, and, indeed,
>>> Pimental
>>> says himself that coal is the real answer to all our energy needs.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Harmon Seaver
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> Google command to search archives:
>>> site:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture searchstring
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 15:43:00 -0600
>> From: "Trudie Redding" <tredding at mail.utexas.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers
>> To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> <B38BF414E6C5BC45A93575AF64F58E92021B8738 at E2K3.engr.utexas.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I'm reading Ogallala revised in 2000-about the underground aquiver  
>> and
>> the history of use of water in the region, has a lot of info about
>> farming-several states, western KS, TX, Colorado etc. includes info
>> about Mobil oil's use of much of the irreplaceable water-it comes  
>> from
>> the Arctic-level has gone down permanently
>>
>> Sort of a paradym shift view of what subsidy means, I mean I had a
>> change of view with this book and the movie "Corn" and am rethinking
>> subsidy.
>>
>> Trudie
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
>> lbsaltzman at aol.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:13 AM
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org; sbfoodfuture at googlegroups.com
>> Subject: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html? 
>> _r=2&ex=136211400
>> 0&en=3d2c87b956499ea3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted= 
>> all
>> &oref=slogin&oref=slogin<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/ 
>> 01hedin.html? 
>> _r=2&ex=1362114000&en=3d2c87b956499ea3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&em 
>> c=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My Forbidden Fruits (and Vegetables)
>>
>>
>>
>> By JACK HEDIN
>>
>>
>>
>> Published: March 1, 2008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rushford, Minn.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jacob Magraw-Mickelson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> IF you've stood in line at a farmers' market recently, you know  
>> that the
>> local food movement is thriving, to the point that small farmers are
>> having a tough time keeping up with the demand.
>>
>>
>>
>> But consumers who would like to be able to buy local fruits and
>> vegetables not just at farmers' markets, but also in the produce  
>> aisle
>> of their supermarket
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:53:57 -0600
>> From: Harmon Seaver <hseaver at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Penalizing Farmers
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <47CDD305.9000209 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Trudie Redding wrote:
>>> I'm reading Ogallala revised in 2000-about the underground  
>>> aquiver and
>>> the history of use of water in the region, has a lot of info about
>>> farming-several states, western KS, TX, Colorado etc. includes info
>>> about Mobil oil's use of much of the irreplaceable water-it comes  
>>> from
>>> the Arctic-level has gone down permanently
>>>
>>> Sort of a paradym shift view of what subsidy means, I mean I had a
>>> change of view with this book and the movie "Corn" and am rethinking
>>> subsidy.
>>>
>>
>>   Yeah, all farm subsidies need to end soonest. Have you ever  
>> looked at
>> the site that tells you just what each and every "farmer" gets as a
>> handout? It's obscene. http://farm.ewg.org/farm/
>>   And since the WTO has already mandated that the US end farm
>> subsidies, it's probably only a matter of time, or the US won't be  
>> able
>> to export crops anyway. Or supposedly so -- rather amazing that the
>> Bushies, et al, push global trade and the WTO so much, then stonewall
>> compliance when it goes against them.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Harmon Seaver
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:41:47 -0800
>> From: Wesley Roe and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
>>        <lakinroe at silcom.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture] You Tube, Keyline Design, Sustainable
>>        Agriculture &Carbon  Sequestering , Lecture With Darren  
>> Doherty
>> Santa
>>        Barbara Nov/07
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>,       
>> "international
>>        Permaculture List" <permaculture at openpermaculture.org>,
>>        ppg at lists.riseup.net, eastbaypermaculture at yahoogroups.com
>> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080304204035.06b5e9f0 at silcom.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
>>
>> You tube of Lecture
>> http://www.youtube.com/user/zymurgydashjive
>>
>> Keyline Design, Sustainable Agriculture &Carbon Sequestering
>> Lecture With Darren Doherty in Santa Barbara Nov 07
>> Produced by Commongood Media and Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
>>
>> What is biological wealth?  Healthy forests,
>> fertile soils, abundant waterways and seas---has
>> any great nation been built without these?  As we
>> degrade and treat them as throw-aways can we
>> expect a prosperous future for our families and
>> children?  Is a sustainable system for
>> agriculture possible that enhances rather than
>> depletes our natural environment?
>>
>>
>>         Join Santa Barbara Permaculture Network
>> as we explore the concept of Keyline Design, a
>> unique design system that restores, regenerates
>> landscapes, and sequesters carbon with Darren
>> Doherty ( www.permaculture.biz) from Australia.
>>
>>         Darren Doherty is an  engaging and
>> accomplished exponent of Permaculture and Keyline
>> Design, Darren Doherty, principal of Australia
>> Felix Permaculture .He presents an overview of
>> the design considerations and implements of his
>> practice. He explains how the intelligent design
>> and management of agricultural landscape, through
>> its ability to rapidly regenerate the topsoil
>> that most effectively sequesters atmospheric
>> carbon, is a prime strategy in repairing humanity's relation to the
>> biosphere
>>
>>         Keyline Design is a complete design
>> system for landscapes.  It is applicable to both
>> rural and urban areas. It is a unique combination
>> of water conservation and soil building, with
>> great appeal to both farmers and ranchers, as it
>> has the ability to build and regenerate degraded
>> soils rapidly, and sees the use of grazing
>> animals as beneficial to this process.
>>
>>         Keyline systems were developed in
>> Australia during the 1950?s by P.A Yeomans (
>> www.yeomansplow.com.au ) as a response to
>> increasing desertification and erosion he
>> observed on the Australian landscape as it
>> related to agriculture.  His book Water For Every
>> Farm, A Keyline Plan is an important work
>> describing a set of principles and techniques
>> based on a holistic approach that works with
>> natural patterns to restore and increase the
>> depth and fertility of the soil, while increasing
>> its water holding capabilities.  Yeomans realized
>> that conventional agriculture totally ignored the
>> biological aspects of the soil.  He created a
>> ?sustainable agriculture? system before the term
>> was coined, and for the first time in human
>> history, methods were developed that could
>> produce rich fertile soils in relatively short
>> periods.  A permanent and lasting agriculture
>> Yeomans believed, must materially and financially
>> benefit the farmer, and benefit the land and soil.
>>
>>         Keyline Design integrates terraces,
>> ponds, tree plantings on contour, and a special
>> cultivation technique using the Keyline plow, to
>> infiltrate water into the soil efficiently and
>> hold it on the land as long as possible. Water
>> harvesting strategies employed by Keyline Design
>> provide drought-proofing for farms with very low
>> maintenance using gravity fed irrigation systems,
>> with a huge reduction in water lost to
>> evaporation. In contrast, up to 80% of water is
>> lost to evaporation using conventional overhead
>> sprinklers.  Farms using Keyline Design have
>> amazing records of deepening the topsoil by 3-6?
>> in 3 years, in contrast to nature?s process,
>> which can take hundreds or thousands of years.
>>
>>         The term Keyline comes from the
>> reference to a ?keypoint? on the watershed, which
>> is the interface between collection and
>> distribution of water on the landscape, where
>> ridge meets the valley.  Keyline is a philosophy
>> and technique that doesn?t pit the needs of
>> farmers against environmentalists trying to
>> protect wildlife and fish habitat, and with
>> carbon sequestering techniques used, helps to
>> address aspects of global warming and climate change.
>>
>>         Darren Doherty is an Australian Keyline
>> Designer, Developer & Manager and Australian
>> Approved Keyline Design? Farm Planning
>> Consultant, and recipient of Whole Farm Planning
>> Certificate ~ Train the Trainer(University of
>> Melbourne 1995).  He has designed and developed
>> over 1100 properties across four continents
>> working most recently in Vietnam, on land
>> projects for Mars Inc, owners of Seeds of Change.
>> His remaining time is spent managing a working
>> research & demonstration farm in Southern Victoria, Australia.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:58:08 +0200
>> From: "Martin Mikush" <martinmikush at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <a79a41870803050658r5d856aa5u810424be46e755f2 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> just finished the three hour project
>>  compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
>> Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for  
>> rigidity
>> ,
>> nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
>> Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .
>>
>> Any suggestions for similar designs ?
>>
>>
>> Martin Mikush
>> --
>> _____________
>>
>> alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
>> _____________
>> E23/N43
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:58:37 -0500
>> From: trevor william johnson <john2116 at msu.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <B1B18DCB-973E-4A7D-9CD3-D2D40BC2AAA6 at msu.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> red wigglers should not be released into the wild.  if you are going
>> to use this compost w/o separating the worms first dont use the worms
>> for composting.
>>
>> trevor
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Martin Mikush wrote:
>>
>>> just finished the three hour project
>>>  compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
>>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
>>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
>>> Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for
>>> rigidity ,
>>> nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
>>> Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .
>>>
>>> Any suggestions for similar designs ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Mikush
>>> --
>>> _____________
>>>
>>> alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
>>> _____________
>>> E23/N43
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> permaculture mailing list
>>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>> Google command to search archives:
>>> site:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture searchstring
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:16:08 -0600
>> From: "Trudie Redding" <tredding at mail.utexas.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
>> To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>         
>> <B38BF414E6C5BC45A93575AF64F58E92021B8864 at E2K3.engr.utexas.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> I like the pictures of Bulgaria that are at this link, thanks!
>>
>> Trudie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Martin
>> Mikush
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:58 AM
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
>>
>> just finished the three hour project
>>  compost crate from 6 pallettes, 6 bags and some nails :
>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002c3de/g26
>> http://pics.livejournal.com/allilinin/pic/0002dyb3/g80
>> Pallettes are cut to little bid more than half and staggered for
>> rigidity ,
>> nailed. front is detacheable and cover too.
>> Will see if the red wigglers would like their new home .
>>
>> Any suggestions for similar designs ?
>>
>>
>> Martin Mikush
>> --
>> _____________
>>
>> alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
>> _____________
>> E23/N43
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> Google command to search archives:
>> site:http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture searchstring
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:20:31 +0100
>> From: steveread at free.fr
>> Subject: [permaculture] Compost crate from cargo pallettes
>> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <1204741231.47cee46f481b6 at imp.free.fr>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>>
>> Build 2 at same time joined together so you can turn from 1 into the
>> other,
>> speed composting/aerating, got a lid? Whole palettes for back and  
>> sides
>> can be
>> stuffed with straw etc to insulate, you may not need the bottom,  
>> small
>> branches
>> should allow enough air and easier to empty.
>>
>> Even better of course is a mini bio-gas digester, then you get gas  
>> and
>> compost
>> http://www.arti-india.org/content/view/46/43/
>>
>>
>> SteveR
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>
>>
>> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 62, Issue 5
>> *******************************************
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
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>
> alchemyarch.net - Design Alchemy!
> _____________
> E23/N43
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