[permaculture] what about lubrication?

Harmon Seaver hseaver at gmail.com
Tue Apr 1 13:25:21 EDT 2008

steveread wrote:
> Fascinating and heated as this debate is I was a bit startled by this
>  "The fact is that a lot of people in this world are probably going to
> starve to death in the not-too-distant future. Or at least in the US.
> And maybe that's a good thing "
> I believe it was Paul Theroux who pointed out how many people starved to death whilst surrounded by things perfectly fine to eat. Also we have the model of Cuban agri, Allotments etc. In London we managed to produce/gather plenty of food.
> and this
>  "the earth's population really needs to
> be reduced by at least half, maybe three-quarters."
> I'm relatively happy with encouraging 'limiting population growth and consumption' I would set my face strongly against population reduction, but then maybe I'm just being quirky.

   I obviously wasn't talking about implementing a new "killing fields"
a la Pol Pot, but of Mother Nature simply implementing what she always
does when populations outgrow their habitat. The developed countries
will be the first to undergo the pruning, since their food supply comes
mostly from afar, and because their prior economic collapse will be the
   And without cheap oil, there is simply no way Mother Earth can
support the current population of humans. Probably not even half.

> Bio-diesel, bio-ethanol I return to a point that has been made before, why am I in the car/truck in the 1st place?

    Well, why are you? Sure, you can walk or ride your bicycle instead.
Of course, if you live in the country and want to take your garden
produce to town to sell.... have fun pedaling it all there on your
bike/truck. Especially when you get old.

 From a Euro point of view the prices and fuel consumption figures that
are often quoted by people in USA raise a wry smile, 1ltr of diesel in
France is now � 1,04, and my tatty old renault runs at 100kms/5ltrs
diesel, what all that is in Dollar/US gallon equiv......? 19,6% of the
price is tax, I think.
   Ah, but when fuel is $10 at gal. in the US, what do you think it will be
for you? Or will they lower the tax? Probably not, because with your
economy in shambles, the gov't won't be getting enough tax money to
function anyway, so they won't dare cut any taxes.

> In certain cities grey water treatment systems have been hung down the sides of buildings, I assume these cound be converted to produce cattails or something similar?
> Kenavo, 

Harmon Seaver

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