[permaculture] 'resurrecting' the thread about spirituality and permaculture

Paul d'Aoust paul at heliosville.com
Fri Mar 23 17:45:34 EDT 2007

Thanks for all the thoughts, guys. After being away from my computer for
a couple days, I figured I should re-join the conversation, seeing as I
started it :-)

It's very interesting to see all the different opinions. I especially
liked Katey's comments -- not only because I happened to agree with
them ;-), but because they were articulated in a way that was perhaps
more eloquent than my efforts. (And I love the fact that you still keep
the silverware in the drawer with all the steel cutlery.) I agree that a
lot of stuff has been done in the name of the creator and the church and
all that, and it's stuff I've had to struggle with myself. It's
embarrassing and frustrating to be associated with psychopaths and
control-freaks (and run-of-the-mill selfish people like today's
mainstream culture), and I wish that that stigma wasn't attached to us.
It's an unfortunate fact that most people who really take the Christian
philosophies to heart are pretty humble and quiet, choosing to make a
difference in their own communities. The public face of Christianity,
however, seems to consist almost exclusively of the 'God Hates Fags'
camp. Dunno why that is. I'm guessing that it's partly because the media
loves to paint people black because it gets people interested.

Michael mentioned something about the worrying amount of disarray in the
natural world, and that a deity with the least sense of tidiness would
have done a much neater job of things. I confess that has worried me
(and still does to an extent) but ultimately, I don't think I would
trust a god who was so rigid as to make everything function like a brass
clock. He wouldn't be very exciting or dynamic, and he'd most certainly
be one of those 'fire and brimstone' gods with a whole host of rules. A
god who does confusing and sometimes bizarre things would be a god with
a lot more depth and mystery. Because we can be pretty random ourselves,
and we can do a lot of lateral thinking and come up with some very
interesting ideas, I don't think it would make sense for an infinite god
to be somehow less capable of that than ourselves.

And of course I think that everyone on this list would agree with
Eugene's point that if there is a single god, he is definitely not a he
or a she. That would be an attempt to define the infinite, which has
been known to cause people to combust in a cloud of confusion :-) As
they say in that often-mangled Taoist quote, "the --- which can be named
is not the eternal ---". (Fill in the blanks as needed.)

Katey, I loved what you said about businesses co-opting spirituality and
turning it into an industry. And it's true that it often becomes a
solitary endeavour once it's become an industry.

well, that's all for now. I've thunk myself out.


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