[permaculture] Jim Kunstler writing

Claudia Joseph permie at earthlink.net
Fri Jun 29 14:17:23 EDT 2007

It seems like length and frequency of posts - basic respect for  
others - is the main point, here.
Permaculture, being the umbrella that it is, covers so much.
Information IS easy to find, these days, once one has a computer  
So, yes, I could tackle a garden question on my own.  It would not  
have the richness of a shared experience, though.

On the other hand, some of these lengthy dialogs are full of goodies.
?  Self censorship seems like the answer.

Are we disciplined in our practice?  Can we share in a meaningful way?

The dinky post I put out for yam growing help yielded a new teaching  
We can't always predict what good will come of seemingly  
insignificant dialog.
I appreciate that Lawrence does this work and i support keeping the  
list open and free.
I have gained so much from staying tuned in.

That's it from me for awhile,

On Jun 28, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Eugene Monaco wrote:

> You know, I appreciate being able to read posts like the two  
> articles below.
> But they are woefully political.  I also appreciate Lawrence's  
> attempts to
> keep the list open and comprehensive, it's a tough job and somebody  
> has to
> do it.  But the calls for censorship are overblown, I think.
> There are a number of subjects that could have their own list.   
> Gardening
> for example.  Mollison said he wouldn't even teach us gardening it  
> was so
> basic, and yet it comes up again and again.  Another topic that  
> could use
> another list is questions from newbies that haven't had a design  
> class.
> Beekeeping could be another.  There are other beekeeping listserves,
> including an organic beekeeping listserve where you can get all you  
> want.
> Peak Oil for sure could be another list, and already is.  Talk  
> about it all
> day.  Also Global Warming.  And news stories like the two below.   
> And so on.
> I heard a story from an architect who ran for mayor, who says that  
> she did
> more for architecture in 3 years as mayor than in 20 years in  
> practice.
> Being in political office is a key point of leverage.  Maybe one of  
> the
> largest out there.  The fact that it has been co-opted by forces of  
> empire
> building (read: ethics disorder) is in part because enough of us do  
> nothing
> about it.
> Permaculture without access to land is difficult.  Land reform and  
> political
> programs and movements and news and stories of such are an extremely
> important part of the equation and need to be shared.  Here in  
> Knoxville, we
> are getting things, through political efforts, such as permeable  
> pavements,
> net-zero housing for low income people, community gardens, better  
> stormwater
> management, recycling at city festivals, and even a commitment from  
> TVA for
> greener power.
> As has already been pointed out, the Designer's Manual included a  
> final
> chapter on 'invisible structures'.  There's your link to politics.   
> I think
> Mollison stopped there because he had said enough already and  
> wanted to
> focus on helping folks understand how the earth works.  He said  
> that we
> already know how to live sustainably, we just don't do it.  Why we  
> don't do
> it is politics.
> A number of struggles, civil rights for example, started in the  
> face of
> impossibility and with political organizing, made tremendous  
> progress over
> time.  Cleaning up Love Canal was a political process of  
> organizing.  Farm
> worker's rights and the accompanying boycotts were all political.  The
> multi-billion dollar, largest-in-world-history lawsuit against  
> ChevronTexaco
> to clean up areas in Honduras is political, as was the process that  
> let it
> happen in the first place.  And the rise of the neo-cons is  
> political too.
> So while we're out in the garden, the organized group in the other  
> valley
> may set things up in a way that doesn't respect permaculture  
> ethics.  We may
> need to show up at City Hall with our pitchforks once in a while.   
> Or be
> gutsy enough to run for office and work that incredibly powerful key
> leverage point (a permaculture principle).
> That there are so many topics is evidence of our growing pains.   
> Mollison
> draws a diagram with permaculture at the center and all other  
> disciplines
> connecting like spokes of the wheel.  He also draws the diagram of the
> elements in the design and all the connections.  That the Greens are
> connected to the beekeepers who are connected to the architects who  
> are
> connected to the labor party is a sign of strength.
> It is difficult to know where to cut off dialogue and ask folks to go
> somewhere else for greater detail.  If we all respect each other's  
> time it
> can be self regulating, and that is a good sign of sustainability.
> Gene Monaco
> Knoxville, TN
>> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] 'Jim Kunstler writing about export cuts by
> 	producers and ramifications'
> "Stop wringing your hands about that new strip mall, think hard about
> how you're going to feed yourself in the coming years . . ."
> ...Those of you considering the purchase of more WalMart stock, take
> note.
>> From: lbsaltzman at aol.com
> Subject: [permaculture] Soil Carbon Sequestration
> Can organic farming fight climate change?
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