[permaculture] Where the political discussion goes

Claudia Joseph permie at earthlink.net
Wed Jun 27 14:25:11 EDT 2007

I agree.  Politics have been clogging this list.

At our garden meetings we allow each person three agenda items per  
month -  to be fair to the group.
Many of us have time limits.


On Jun 26, 2007, at 10:12 PM, David Riley wrote:

> I cast a NAY! to politics here.
> The reasons I submit are below, if you care to delve.Go no further  
> if you don't.
> Which chapter in the Designers Manual involves politics? Or, Perm 1  
> or Perm 2 or intro to Permaculture? I would like to read further on  
> how it's included in the Permaculture principles/design/ethics.   
> Whose agenda will we be discussing politically? Will it be a  
> positive discussion with solutions or a negative cathartic release  
> for selected people? Why do folks periodically try to redefine or  
> 'improve' Permaculture to suit their needs?
> There is already an issue with dominant personalities needing to be  
> right about every point of discussion.  The thought of having to  
> bear the rambling dialogue of every member's backlog of political  
> viewpoints...well, it makes me think of every other (average)  
> internet site. It also seems that the discussions have gotten  
> personally subjective on this list due to 'politics', and further  
> from the point of Permaculture design.
> I recall Mr. Mollison turning to the concept of Permaculture to  
> escape the uselessness of the protesting masses that avoided doing  
> anything real as they got caught up in the  whining of their own  
> negative voices. [And that's a vague paraphrase definitely.]
> If politics becomes part of this list does Mr Lawrence need to re- 
> subscribe some former members: i.e.; Ken Benway. He was rather  
> adamant about POLITICS and PERMACULTURE and was black-listed.  
> Perhaps because his passion lead to 75 emails over a two week  
> period, flooding our in-boxes with his passion for U.S.  
> presidential contenders. (Turns out his website says he's a  
> permaculture designer,  not a right- wing Monsanto employee.)  By  
> no means am I promoting this person, just exemplifying the  
> behaviour of the obsessed.
> I believe it was the wisdom of Robert Waldrop who noted that  
> "finding ways to divide us does nothing to build community". I  
> would add,  the PERMACULTURE WORLD COMMUNITY is a diverse perennial  
> polyculture.
> That being said.....I'm up for it (political discourse) being on  
> this list. If we only discuss Canadian, British and Australian  
> politics...NOTHING to do with American politics. Not to mention the  
> politics of the good people in the European Union, Africa, Asia,  
> Middle East, former USSR, the Stans, Greenland, Oceania, South/ 
> Central America, etc..or is this really a GLOBAL list? Or is it the  
> nationalist agenda to make US policy the World policy?
> My dos centavos worth.  I spent way too much time on this  
> topic....arf.
> Regards,
> David
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