[permaculture] Politcal talk-Yay or nay

Sean Maley semaley at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 27 10:44:57 EDT 2007

Here is what I hear from Tommy, which is all Permaculture all the way.  You can twist this as Politics, if you wish, but, like all propaganda, this would be dangerous and only partly true.


Everyone on this list should be contacting Sally and Tim to offer support for their film.  I see this film as a staple for inducing Permaculture interest.  It also explains much of the confusion in this pitiful dialog.

Of course politics, and other invisible structures, must be included to some extent.  This neither embraces politics in the light of stories told to us as children, nor does it mean we must take a specific path into the future.  There is no one right way to live.  However, there is certainly a way that won't work:  civilization.

We all agree more than we disagree, but we just don't know it yet.


Loren Davidson <listmail at lorendavidson.com> wrote: ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Tommy Tolson 
Reply-To: permaculture 

Date:  Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:00:28 -0500

>My vote is to leave the political discussion on the list where it belongs.
>I suggest that those who do not want it here may suffer from wounded 
>This is a serious, and common, wound that needs compassionate healing.
>I came back to the US from Vietnam in 1970 with this wound.  I'm 
>healing.  I'm grateful.

With all due respect, you're projecting. And my interpretation of your words is that you're assuming that there's something wrong with people who don't share your particular views on politics on this list, something that "needs healing." Personally, I find that perspective to be patronizing. If I bothered to work up some energy over it, I'd be offended too. But I have better ways to invest my emotional energy.

Offended people who feel like they're being talked down to aren't going to be very open to changing how they feel and act. If your purpose in posting political (or any) material is to influence people's opinions and actions, you might keep that in mind.

Yours is not the only valid perspective, on our international list. Please don't act as though it is.

Also, as a style issue, my eyes glaze over when I see a long post that covers *many* issues, some of them hot buttons, without really being organized or focused. I tune out and hit delete, and it ain't because I "need healing" either.

My perspective on *any* kind of discussion involving conflicting points of view is that if the participants don't understand that everyone's perspective is valid *at least for them*, the discussion is doomed to deteriorate into misunderstanding, resentment, and attempts to exercise "power over."

Give everyone else the same basic respect that you want for yourself.


Loren Davidson   listmail at lorendavidson.com
"Escape Artist" - http://www.lorendavidson.com
"Work is the curse of the drinking class" - WC Fields

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