[permaculture] No-till potatoes - surface cultivation and deep mulching

rafter t. sass geophaestus at hotmail.com
Tue Jun 26 14:35:30 EDT 2007


This is a question about mulching technique for near-surface cultivation of 
potatoes:

We are currently growing potatoes with a fairly conventional no-till 
trench-and-hill technique. We are not mulching, in part because of a carbon 
bottleneck, wanting neither to pay $$$ for straw or seed our beds with hay.

I am growing a test plot (about 18 row feet) under shallow cultivation. No 
trench, seed taters buried 4 inches, and mulching with straw. My question 
about specific mulching technique: how dense? How closely packed between 
plants? Should I lay down and bury side shoots, or gather the plant into a 
central bundle and mulch around it?

If anyone has experience with this, I would greatly appreciate any help!





>From: permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org
>Reply-To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:00:27 -0400
>
>Send permaculture mailing list submissions to
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>
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>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
>    2. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Kenneth Benway)
>    3. Re: BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource
>       Presidency! (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    4. Permaculture Activist (John Wages)
>    5. Re: Seedballs (Linda Shewan)
>    6. the night of the living dead (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>    7. Re: Seedballs (jedd)
>    8. Re: Keith Johnson for President! (Keith Johnson)
>    9. [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic
>       Plants a mild proposal] (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   10. Re: Pollies and permies (Keith Johnson)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:11:05 -0400
>From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken at arcadiandesign.org>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>	Votes to Outsource Presidency!
>To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <007a01c7b0c7$d195bba0$660aa8d2 at arcadian.local>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250
>
>I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
>think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
>Ken
>
>Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
>May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
>office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
>to India as of July 1, 2007.  The move is being made in order to save
>the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
>in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
>incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
>move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
>(R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
>current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.
>
>Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
>Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.
>
>Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
>office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
>States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
>thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
>$320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.
>
>It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
>responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
>between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
>few offices of the US Government will be open.  "Working nights will
>allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
>Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
>I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
>that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
>in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
>Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.
>
>Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
>effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
>can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
>issue at all.  "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
>spokesperson.  "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
>with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
>talking about."
>
>Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
>day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
>eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks.  Unfortunately he
>will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
>exceed the allowed limit.  Mr. Bush has been provided with the
>outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
>prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
>may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
>successful work experience during his lifetime.  A Greeter position at
>Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
>hands, as well as his special smile.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
>Benway
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:10 AM
>To: 'permaculture'
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Design-Bioregional-Energy Policy-Feasible
>Power Solutions.US.Fl
>
>
>The name of the topic has been changed.
>
>Recent input from other topics has indicated that we need to look at
>system design in terms of scale. By that I mean for example, the solar
>array on a home system might be simpler and perhaps stationary, as
>larger power systems might have motorized controls, with parabolic
>reflectors, that track the sun throughout the day, maximizing power
>output.
>
>Ken
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
>Benway
>Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 10:07 AM
>To: 'permaculture'
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Energy-Energy Policy-Bioregional
>Design-Feasible Power Solutions.US.Fl
>
>
>Recently I posted an article titled:
>"Energy Policy and Bioregional Design-The Sustainability of Biofuels"
>I received a large response from this article which for the most part, I
>found insightful and relevant to the article.
>
>To whoever changed the topic name I would suggest that maybe next time
>you consider using a more empowering title like "Feasible Power
>Solutions" which has a more positive intonation than "Infeasible power
>fantasies". This is just a suggestion. In my view our focus should be on
>solutions that work not dwelling on those that don't as the topic name
>implies. Certainly we must support our "solution" proposals with
>examples of why other approaches are flawed, this I have no problem
>with.
>
>As I have mentioned in earlier posts, I am taking on a new permaculture
>design project which is focused on the Florida biogregion at the
>bioregional level. Anything we could do to keep the topics and input
>relating to this specific design would be greatly appreciated. It is
>very time consuming for me to have to jump all over this list to dig up
>and compile information relevant to this project.
>
>Jedd pointed out my use of the word "should" in the context of my
>previous article. Jedd, I agree with you completely, "should" is
>actually a word that I avoid in conversation due to its obvious
>connotations, I thank you for your input and will be more vigilant in
>the future.
>My only request is that, as Jedd has done in the past, we all strive to
>provide these suggestions off list as they tend to distract us from the
>topic.
>
>Below I have pulled relevant content from the "Infeasible power
>fantasies" thread and posted them below in a manner that they relate to
>a particular system configuration or technology.
>
>
>FEASIBLE POWER SOLUTIONS-FLORIDA BIOREGION
>
>Viable Energy System Technologies for the Florida Bioregion
>
>1. Photo Voltaic Power Systems coupled to the grid via a net meter.
>
>2. Photo Voltaic Power Systems disconnected from the grid using battery
>systems for energy storage.
>
>3. Photo Voltaic Power Systems using a combination of net meter and
>batteries
>
>4. Solar water heating systems that provide both hot water for personal
>use 	as well as meeting the heating requirement of a building.
>
>5. Passive Solar Design methods that reduce the energy demand of a
>building.
>
>6. Other emerging Solar to Electric conversion technologies.
>
>7. Other emerging Solar to Hot Liquid conversion technologies.
>
>8. Geothermal technologies that leverage ground water temperatures with
>respect to stabilizing ambient air temperatures to a desired level.
>
>9. The use of DC or low voltage AC appliances and other electrical
>devices 	to both reduce system costs and in house component
>costs.
>
>	I'm sure that I've missed a few, please feel free to add any
>that you may be aware of.
>
>
>List participants input:
>
>On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Robyn Francis wrote:
> > Solar Voltaics are only one means of solar power generation. Many of
>the
> > new solar thermal systems actually peak at 2am so the issue and some
>store
> > heat to generate energy for several days. The only issue then is
>backup for
> > extended cloudy wet periods.
>
>The above comment begins to discuss key issues that impact system
>design. Thanks Robyn, for your input.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>Jebb wrote:
>
>  "Are these the things that look like a black corrugated iron roof,
>  and that get stupidly hot in even the mildest heat .. ?  I've seen
>  these, and am expect I'll head down that path for my own hot
>  water system.  Do you have some pointers to manufacturer or retail
>  pages of the 2am-peak style systems that you're referring to?
>
>  As you say, storage of energy becomes the big one, and this is
>  why solar will always be a component of a green energy provisioning
>  system .. until room temperature superconductors are invented,
>  that is."
>
>Here Jedd is has brought up several excellent points.
>1. relates to solar hot water system designs and related storage issues.
>
>2. relates to sourcing components for a system. This is a need we all
>have and perhaps we might consider developing a new sub topic that
>begins developing a source list for system components by system type.
>3. relates to emerging technologies such as "room temperature
>superconductors" which I would certainly like to know more about.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>Jedd wrote:
>"On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Kenneth Benway wrote:
> > Solar should meet nearly 100% of Florida's energy needs.
>
>  Should is such a useful word, isn't it.
>
>  Anyhoo, how do you propose to supply energy when the
>  sun isn't shining?
>
>  Have you calculated the surface area that would need to be  covered
>with PVC's in order to provide the necessary power?"
>
>To address Jebb's comments above:
>The first is handled. ( perhaps we might consider outlawing the word
>"should" from this list, just kidding!)
>With regard to the second remark the answer is storage batteries.
>With respect to the third comment, We need to find creative ways to
>reduce energy consumption which ultimately would drive the power
>requirement which would determine how much surface area we need for
>photo voltaic. The remaining question will be resolved using simple
>math.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>Robyn wrote:
>
>"Jedd, you need to think beyond the isolated individual household
>systems. At that scale currently solar voltaics are pretty-much all
>that's on offer. However there's a lot of innovation happening with
>solar thermal systems and most of these operate on a larger scale to
>power from 20 up to 200,000 households. Many of these employ parabolic
>reflectors. Some store heat overnight using various liquids.
>
>Some of these could be installed on flat rooftops in innercity areas and
>industrial estates or even over roofed carparks. Other prototypes have
>been set up on farmland with no disturbance to livestock free-range
>grazing underneath.
>
>You might like to check out
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy just to see how a few
>solarthermal power generation systems work. I've seen other
>systems/variations in documentaries and various science & technology
>articles.
>
>There's also the solarthermal power station being built in Western NSW
>with a big glasshouse covering hectares of land. The hot air
>accumulating under the glass feeds convectively through a huge tower in
>the centre driving a turbine. This system also is expected to peak daily
>at 2-3pm.
>
>Robyn,
>Now we are hitting the nail on the head. Scale is a key issue here and
>the system design configuration will change as a function of scale.
>Thanks again for your powerful insights.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>Thanks to all that contributed to the previous topic. If I missed any
>input, I apologize. As I mentioned earlier it can become difficult to
>find these valuable nuggets of pertinent information when searching this
>list.
>
>Regard,
>Ken Benway
>Arcadian Design
>St Petersburg Fl
>www.KenBenway.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
>6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
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>
>
>
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
>6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
>6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
>6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:15:06 -0400
>From: "Kenneth Benway" <ken at arcadiandesign.org>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>	Votes to Outsource Presidency!
>To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <008001c7b0c8$615f1ec0$660aa8d2 at arcadian.local>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250
>
>Whoops! I forgot to rip out the irrelevant material from previous topic.
>Sorry. The coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth
>Benway
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:11 AM
>To: 'permaculture'
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes
>to Outsource Presidency!
>
>I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
>think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
>Ken
>
>Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
>May 24th, 2007: Washington, DC (AP) -- Congress today announced that the
>office of President of the United States of America will be outsourced
>to India as of July 1, 2007.  The move is being made in order to save
>the President's $500,000 yearly salary, and also a record $521 Billion
>in deficit expenditures and related overhead that the office has
>incurred during the last 5 years. "We believe this is a wise financial
>move. The cost savings are huge. " stated Congressman Thomas Reynolds
>(R-WA). "We cannot remain competitive on the world stage with the
>current level of cash outlay." Reynolds noted.
>
>Mr. Bush was informed by e-mail this morning of his termination.
>Preparations for the job move have been underway for some time.
>
>Gurvinder Sing h of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will assume the
>office of President as of July 1, 2007. Mr. Singh was born in the United
>States while his Indian parents were vacationing at Niagara Falls, NY,
>thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of
>$320 (USD) a month but no health coverage or other benefits.
>
>It is believed that Mr. Singh will be able to handle his job
>responsibilities without a support staff. Due to the time difference
>between the US and India, he will be working primarily at night, when
>few offices of the US Government will be open.  "Working nights will
>allow me to keep my day job at the Dell Computer call center," stated
>Mr. Singh in an exclusive interview. "I am excited about this position.
>I always hoped I would be President." A Congressional spokesperson noted
>that while Mr. Singh may not be fully aware of all the issues involved
>in the office of President, this should not be a problem as President
>Bush had never been familiar with the issues either.
>
>Mr. Singh will rely upon a script tree that will enable him to respond
>effectively to most topics of concern. Using these canned responses, he
>can address common concerns without having to understand the underlying
>issue at all.  "We know these scripting tools work," stated the
>spokesperson.  "President Bush has used them successfully for years,
>with the result that some people actually thought he knew what he was
>talking about."
>
>Bush will receive health coverage, expenses, and salary until his final
>day of employment. Following a two week waiting period, he will be
>eligible for $140 a week unemployment for 13 weeks.  Unfortunately he
>will not be eligible for Medicaid, as his unemployment benefits will
>exceed the allowed limit.  Mr. Bush has been provided with the
>outplacement services of Manpower, Inc. to help him write a resume and
>prepare for his upcoming job transition. According to Manpower, Mr. Bush
>may have difficulties in securing a new position due to a lack of any
>successful work experience during his lifetime.  A Greeter position at
>Wal-Mart was suggested due to Bush's extensive experience at shaking
>hands, as well as his special smile.
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/848 - Release Date:
>6/13/2007 12:50 PM
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:26:29 -0400
>From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl at intrex.net>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress
>	Votes to Outsource Presidency!
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <46750C55.3090301 at intrex.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>Kenneth Benway wrote:
>
> > I just couldn't let this one get by without sharing it with the group. I
> > think that we can always us a good laugh, I know I can.
> > Ken
> >
> > Congress Votes to Outsource Presidency
>
>This crosses the line, it has absolutely nothing to do with permaculture.
>Do we need to pass the hat and pay for therapy for you Ken?
>
>Read my keystrokes, no more political posts. These ladies say it too:
>http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/images/bush3.jpg
>
>We've been losing a subscriber every few days, unusual for this forum.
>Back to PC. Be Permaculturally Correct.
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 05:57:31 -0500
>From: "John Wages" <jwages at earthlink.net>
>Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture Activist
>To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <410-220076017105731500 at earthlink.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Issue #66 of the Permaculture Activist (submission deadline:  Sept. 1) is
>about "Animals in Permaculture."  Although we are always open to new ideas,
>a few topics of special interest for this issue follow.  If you would like
>to submit an article, please do so.  It would be good to let us know in
>advance so that we can better plan the layout.  Writer's guidelines are
>found at
>www.permacultureactivist.net/writersguidelines/writersguidelines.htm
>
>Possible topics:
>miniature livestock (i.e., Dexter cattle, pot-bellied pigs), preferably in
>a permaculture setting
>poultry forages:  temperate, as well as tropical
>low-input systems to feed poultry:  earthworms, mealworms
>successful application of ducks for slug control (with specifics)
>draft animals
>appropriate uses of dogs, cats in a permaculture setting
>"wildcrafting" game animals and livestock like guinea fowl, pigeons, quail,
>pheasants
>raising rabbits in colonies (warrens)
>fencing:  specifics on electric net fencing, living fences, etc.
>specifics of successful guilds that incorporate animals
>protecting young plantings from wild animals such as deer
>humane slaughter methods:  does anyone "gas" chickens on a small scale?
>examples of highly integrated systems:
>greenhouse/vermicompost/chickens/ducks
>specific breeds that have advantages in particular permaculture systems
>microlivestock
>animal health:  holistic approaches, medicinal herbs
>beekeeping:  Does anyone keep bees successfully without miticides and
>antibiotics and without experiencing CCD?  How do you do it?
>insects and other low-on-the-food-chain species (freshwater shrimp) as
>human food
>
>John
>
>John Wages
>Guest Editor, Permaculture Activist
>jwages at earthlink.net or editor at permacultureactivist.ne
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 21:36:53 +1000
>From: "Linda Shewan" <linda.shewan at bryn.com.au>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
>To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID:
>	<81E7377A1303BC46A46DD9DDB0FE82CB33DDED at EXCHSV01.bryn.com.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>Thanks Dieter,
>
>I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
>simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
>and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
>impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...
>
>When we get this project going I will report back on our success rate.
>It's a school project that will hopefully be grant funded so we will be
>recording the results.
>
>Cheers, Linda
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dieter Brand [mailto:diebrand at yahoo.com]
>Sent: Saturday, 16 June 2007 9:05 PM
>To: permaculture
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
>
>Linda,
>
>   Last fall and the year before, I did some tests with seedballs in
>parallel
>   with the direct broadcasting of seeds. I found that it either didn't
>   work at all, or that the seedball plots germinated much later than the
>   directly seeded plots.
>
>   Going by the discussions on the Fukuoka farming group, this is
>probably
>   similar to what a lot of people experience, since one usually never
>hears
>   from people again who announce that they are going to try it.
>
>   The problem I found was that the seeds in the seedballs didn't
>germinate
>   with light rain, at a time when the directly broadcast seeds had
>already
>   germinated. When the rain would get stronger, the clay would be washed
>
>   away, and the seeds, I had taken so much trouble to enclose in the
>clay
>   balls, where laying on the ground just as the directly broadcast
>seeds,
>   except that the latter had germinated much sooner. I live in a
>semi-arid
>   region in the South of Portugal, where the climate is very different
>from
>   the humid climate encountered by Fukuoka in Japan. This may account
>   for some of the problems I had.
>
>   If you do give it a try, don't use the mesh-method. I went to great
>   expense to buy 3 differently graded metal meshes and fix them to
>   wooden frames. It was extremely messy and took ages just to
>   pellet a handful of seeds. It is amazing that Fukuoka should have
>   included this method in his book, which he very obviously can't
>   have tested himself.
>
>   For a small-scale test use a large bowl (or tray) with a smooth inner
>   surface, throw in a handful of seeds and about 3 to 5 times that
>   amount of finely pulverized clay (you need to smash dry clay, then
>   pass it through a fine sieve so as to get rid of all stones); then one
>
>   person needs to swing the bowl around (great for your belly muscles),
>   so that the contents will roll along the inner side-surfaces of the
>   bowl (back and forth with the tray), while another persons adds water
>   little by little (best to use a spraying device of some sort). After a
>
>   while the pellets will form. It usually can't be avoided that some
>   pellets contain more than one seed.
>
>   For growing a crop by this method one needs some sort of revolving
>   drum device like a concrete mixer without the inner shovels. But I
>   wouldn't go to the expense of building one before testing if I want
>   to use the seedball method on a regular base.
>
>   Once I get a little more time, I will give it another try since the
>   pelleting of seeds allows for a much more flexible seeding schedule.
>   Right now, I can only use direct broadcasting from 15 Nov. until
>   the end of March because of the ants. I can use mulch to protect
>   the seeds against birds, while rodents and other wee creatures only
>   take a small part, but the ants will get every single seed even under
>   a layer of mulch.
>
>   Dieter Brand
>   Portugal
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:13:39 -0400
>From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl at intrex.net>
>Subject: [permaculture] the night of the living dead
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <46753383.5050307 at intrex.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: [SANET-MG] the night of the living dead
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:46:58 -0400
>From: jcummins <jcummins at UWO.CA>
>Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group 
><SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
>To: SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
>'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get
>round' GM ban
>By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor the independent
>Published: 17 June 2007
>"Zombie" GM crops - so called because farmers will have to pay biotech
>companies to bring seeds back from the dead - are being developed with
>British taxpayers' money.
>The highly controversial development - part of a ?3.4m EU research
>project - is bound to increase concerns about the modified crops and the
>devastating effect they could have on Third World farmers.
>Environmentalists charge that it appears to be an attempt to get round a
>worldwide ban on a GM technology so abhorred that even Monsanto has
>said it will not use it.
>The ban is on the so-called "terminator technology", which was designed
>to modify crops so that they produce only sterile seeds. This would force
>the 1.4 billion poor farmers who traditionally save seeds from one
>year's harvest to sow for the following one instead to buy new ones from
>biotech firms, swelling their profits but increasing poverty and hunger.
>Since the ban was agreed under a UN treaty seven years ago, companies
>and pro-GM countries - including the United States and Britain - have
>pressed to have it overturned, so far without success. But the new
>technology promises to offer companies an even more profitable way of
>achieving dominance.
>Zombie crops would also be engineered to produce sterile seed that could
>be brought back to life with the right treatment - almost certainly with a
>chemical sold by the company that markets the seed. Farmers would
>therefore have to pay out, not for new seeds, but to make the ones they
>saved viable.
>A report published last week by ETC - the Canada-based Action Group on
>Erosion Technology and Concentration that led the campaign against
>terminator technology - calls this "a dream scenario for the Gene Giants".
>It says it will be cheaper for them to sell farmers the chemicals to
>revive saved seeds than to pay the costs of storing and distributing new
>ones. It
>adds: "They will initially keep prices low. But once farmers are on the
>platform, and the competition has been destroyed, the companies can start
>pricing the chemical that restores seed viability as high as they like.
>The key point is that the viability of the crop would be controlled by the
>corporation that sells the seed."
>The three-year EU research programme, called Transcontainer, which
>involves 13 universities and research institutes and is partially funded by
>taxpayers in Britain and other EU countries, says that it is developing
>the technology to try to "reduce significantly" the spread of GM genes to
>conventional and organic crops.
>Such contamination - long denied and downplayed by the industry and its
>supporters - is now accepted to be one of the main obstacles to the
>advance of modified crops.
>ETC's report also says that if the new technology is developed,
>governments and regulators will insist that all GM crops will have to be
>engineered to be "zombies" to try to prevent contamination and in the
>process deliver farmers into complete dependence on the biotech
>companies.
>It adds, however, that no containment strategy is foolproof and that the
>genes will inevitably spread anyway through pollen.
>The Transcontainer project insists that it is "specifically targeted at
>European agriculture and European crops". But it admits that such
>technologies "may become a problem for farmers in developing countries."
>ETC warns that if the technology is commercialised it will "ultimately
>be adopted indiscriminately" everywhere. It concludes: "A scenario in which
>farmers have to pay for a chemical to restore seed viability creates a
>new perpetual monopoly for the seed industry."
>'Zombie crops' funded by British taxpayers to 'get round' GM ban -
>Inde... http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2666422.ece
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:14:55 +1000
>From: jedd <jedd at progsoc.org>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Seedballs
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <200706172314.55351.jedd at progsoc.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="ansi_x3.4-1968"
>
>On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Linda Shewan wrote:
> > I have no option but to try the clay covered option as broadcast sowing
> > simply feeds the crows/ravens, magpies, sparrows, currawongs, cockatoos
> > and countless other winged friends. And a covering of straw/hay has no
> > impact except providing light entertainment for the birds...
>
>  Linda,
>
>  Out of curiosity, what types of plants are you trying to get going,
>  and on what scale, with this method?
>
>  I've never used seedballing - it's always seemed a bit too much
>  effort compared to seedling things out, or just broadcasting
>  very opportunistically.  I know it works well in particularly dry
>  regions where you don't want to stick around for the rains, but
>  if you're in Vic (?) I wouldn't have thought that'd be the problem.
>
>  Jedd.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:05:34 -0400
>From: Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Keith Johnson for President!
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <46755BCE.3090608 at mindspring.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Thanks for the votes :-) ...but I've got 600 emails that arrived while I
>was away teaching a two week course, more projects than I can shake a
>stick at, and I'd rather be in the garden than ANY office. Politicians,
>in general, would be more effective if they were mulched...deeply ;-) .
>Keith
>
>J Kolenovsky wrote:
> > I thought Martin Naylor was better suited for White House Press
> > Secretary.
> >
> > By the way, I meant Keith Johnson for Permaculture President. He could
> > be like an emissary (word?) for Mollison and Holmgren. Pay should be
> > pretty good.
> >
>--
>Keith Johnson
>"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
>Permaculture Activist Magazine
>PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
>(812) 335-0383
>http://www.permacultureactivist.net
>Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
>Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
>http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
>http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
>Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
>also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
>http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
>also Association for Regenerative Culture
>also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
>small world after oil.
>http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
>also Bloomington Permaculture Guild
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:21:17 -0400
>From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl at intrex.net>
>Subject: [permaculture] [Fwd: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in
>	Transgenic Plants a mild proposal]
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <4675516D.50201 at intrex.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: [SANET-MG] Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants a mild 
>proposal
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:25:50 -0400
>From: jcummins <jcummins at UWO.CA>
>Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group 
><SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
>To: SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
>An interesting idea is given below. In thinking about the proposal I
>would like to offer the idea that the Province of Alberta in Canada  and
>the State of Washington should be designated places where food crops
>cannot be planted ,only transgenic pharmaceutical and energy crops may
>be grown. In both of these places GM non food crops  have tested so much
>that  the  food crops grown in the areas are in question. However, the
>lesson has been that the transportation corridors for movement of the GM
>crops soon become polluted by the GM crops as has been shown in Japan
>and in Canada. Thus transportation  corridors will have to be set aside
>for the movement of the GM non-food crops. Of course, it would be much
>easier to just not grow such crops.
>
>Published in Crop Sci 47:1255-1262 (2007)
>DOI: 10.2135/cropsci2006.09.0594
>
>Methods for Growing Nonfood Products in Transgenic Plants
>John A. Howarda,* and Elizabeth E. Hoodb
>
>a Applied Biotechnology Institute, Bldg. 36, Cal Poly State Univ., San
>Luis Obispo, CA 93407
>b Arkansas State Univ., P.O. Box 2760, State Univ., AR 72467
>
>The relatively high cost of producing select industrial and
>pharmaceutical products in traditional hosts has led many groups to
>investigate the benefits of plant-based production systems. Transgenic
>plants can offer significant cost advantages for select products, but
>the advantage can be eroded occasionally by the cost of confinement to
>segregate them from commodity crops. The conceptual similarities and
>differences between transgenic plant production systems and other
>transgenic hosts are discussed in regard to regulations and public
>perception. A system of regulated transgenic production is described
>that is based on dedicating an area solely to industrial products. This
>system would take advantage of surrounding crops that are also grown for
>industrial applications to offset the cost of growing the regulated
>transgenic plants. Examples are given that demonstrate the economic
>advantages of the system while concurrently creating a clearer
>distinction between food and nonfood products. This system may also
>increase public confidence, as it is modeled on current systems used to
>produce regulated transgenic products in nonplant hosts.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 13:25:08 -0400
>From: Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Pollies and permies
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <46756E74.4090504 at mindspring.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>ditto.
>
>David Riley wrote:
> > Ken, when I see your name now, or anyone referring to the politician 
>that you feel the need to rant on about, or the word POLITICS, I delete the 
>message or skip it. Through your adamant stance you have, in my view, 
>assigned your own name and subject to the no read list.
>--
>Keith Johnson
>"Be fruitful and mulch apply."
>Permaculture Activist Magazine
>PO Box 5516, Bloomington, IN 47408
>(812) 335-0383
>http://www.permacultureactivist.net
>Impeachment: It's not just for blowjobs anymore.
>Switch to Solar Power the Easy Way
>http://www.jointhesolution.com/KeithJ-SunPower
>http://www.PowUr.com/KeithJ-SunPower
>Blog: http://kjpermaculture.blogspot.com/
>also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
>http://www.permacultureactivist.net/design/Designconsult.html
>also Association for Regenerative Culture
>also APPLE-Bloomington (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) It's a 
>small world after oil.
>http://www.relocalize.net/groups/applebloomington
>also Bloomington Permaculture Guild
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>permaculture mailing list
>permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>End of permaculture Digest, Vol 53, Issue 46
>********************************************

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