[permaculture] Permaculture defined - more from Odo Primavesi and others in this list from 2000 Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag?

Lawrence F. London, Jr. lfl at intrex.net
Mon Jun 25 23:49:48 EDT 2007


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] nutrition in a bottle or a bag?
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:51:33 -0400
> From: Karl North <northsheep at JUNO.COM>
> Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group <SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
> To: SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
> 
> Tanya Kucak said:
> 
> "The most interesting work on soil fertility I've seen is a few short
> papers by Roland Bunch based on the work of Ana Primavesi. Basically,
> she describes the traditional approach to fertilization as the
> Nutrient Quantity Concept -- the notion that specific nutrients need
> to be supplied to plants in periodic large doses -- and proposes that
> in the tropics, the Nutrient Access Concept is more important. This
> is the notion that plants need constant access to tiny quantities of
> nutrients, best supplied by nurturing the soil biology and using
> sufficient compost and mulch."
> 
> I regard the Primavesi work as revolutionary. Because of her work, no
> longer can anyone justify feeding plants any other way than through the
> biological channels that nature evolved in the soil community. Her worked
> demonstrated just how crude and inefficient other methods are in
> providing the "constant access to tiny quantities of nutrients", which is
> all the nutrient delivery that plants need to maximize growth and health.
> To me this means that until someone can demonstrate differently, research
> on feeding plants must adhere to that finding, and that rule.  There may
> be many ways to enhance that biological delivery system and the health of
> its constituents and interactions. In my view that is the research agenda
> that Primavesi's work implies.
> 
> Karl North
> Northland Sheep Dairy, Freetown, New York USA
>       www.geocities.com/northsheep/
> "Mother Nature never farms without animals" - Albert Howard
> "Pueblo que canta no morira" - Cuban saying

Odo Primavesi  odo at cppse.embrapa.br
Mon, 3 Jul 2000 14:38:15 -0300 (EST)

     * Previous message: Landscape architecture
     * Next message: Diversity and stability, was: Re: all theory thread (long)

Good day, Pc practitioners!

To the discussion on what Pc really is (concept, tool etc), in my view
of an agronomist working in tropical climate, where the processes are
speeded up, for example an organic matter decay of 50 years in Europe
occurs in 6 months in our savanna ecosystem, PC is a very well
developed model of natural energy input management, to achieve the
optimal biomass production of a site. PC uses waterbodies and different
kinds of plants.

Here in the Brazilian tropics we see that resident water conservation is
the most important life promoter. And this I get by soil conservation
practices using different kinds of plants, trying to accumulate the
biggest quantity and biodiversity of biomass. So I can reestablish an
  useful  complex hydrologic cycle and microclimatic buffering. The
forestry (agroforestry) is an important component of this  system. PC
  is a more complex agroforestry design, because of the detailed
calculations on energy management.

So I see PC as a superior agroforestry system adapted to the site
specific ecological conditions, paying attention to ecological principles.
  Certainly the design will be site specific, depending on the local
energy and water input, and available soil properties (fertility,
drainage, depth etc.). What we need to keep in mind are the ecological
principles (they are unchangeable).

In relation to the spiritual events normally linked to Pc, the answer
is that people that try to use techniques adequate to attend ecological
principles, like Pc, are more linked to nature, to life! To Life! So, it
is not the opposite! Pc practitioners are nature friends, and therefore
  more social worried.

With the best regards,

Odo Primavesi

(Note: To design the energy balance in a site, including different
management options (simulations) we need a specialist in this matter,
  to establish a simulation program which will make it easier to design
site specific Pc systems. I am not such a gay. My matter is water and
soil conservation.)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Lee Flier wrote:

 > Myk wrote:
 >
 > >To my mind 'data/examples/recipes/whatever' are examples of permaculture's
 > >application not permaculture - Isn't it when the
 > >data/examples/recipes/pictures/drawings... etc. are taken as permaculture
 > >(rather than the result of the application of permaculture as a design
 > >system/methodology) and implemented by rote in inappropriate circumstances
 > >that the problems occur?
 >
 > Yes, and that was exactly my point.  It needs to be emphasized that
 > Permaculture is a SYSTEM and not a specific application.  But, being a
 > relatively unknown system, we ALSO need to be able to provide examples of
 > using the system, or else people will dismiss the system as pie-in-the-sky
 > and impractical.  At the same time we need to make it clear that these are
 > examples and not permaculture (in the same way that a house is an example of
 > an application of architecture, and that is a very useful analogy).  That
 > was my point - that we need to teach both and we need to make it very clear
 > what the distinction is.  That can be a challenge but I think part of the
 > reason people have a hard time understanding what permaculture is, is
 > because not enough emphasis is placed on making the distinction clear.
 >
 > --Lee
 >
 > ***********************************
 > Lee A. Flier
 > lflier at mindspring.com
 > Atlanta, Georgia, USA
 > http://lflier.home.mindspring.com
 >
 >
 > ---
 > You are currently subscribed to permaculture as: odo at cppse.embrapa.br
 > To unsubscribe send a blank email to $subst('Email.Unsub')
 > To subscribe send email to lyris at franklin.oit.unc.edu
 > with message text containing: subscribe permaculture
 >
 >

#######################################################
ODO PRIMAVESI, Agronomy, Sc.Dr.,
Soil and Plant Nutrition/Environment Quality
(in intensive cattle production systems)
E.mail: odo at cppse.embrapa.br

Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation-EMBRAPA
Southeast Cattle Research Center-CPPSE
Rodovia Washington Luiz, km 234 - Fazenda Canchim
Caixa Postal 339  (P.O.B.)
13560-970 Sao Carlos, SP - Brazil
Phone: (55)16-261-5611 - Fax: (55)16-261-5754
########################################################

-- 
Lawrence F. London, Jr.
Venaura Farm
lfl at intrex.net
http://market-farming.com
http://market-farming.com/venaurafarm
http://venaurafarm.blogspot.com/
http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech




More information about the permaculture mailing list