[permaculture] Design-Bioregional-Energy/overpopulation

Don Titmus ujgs2 at 4dirs.com
Mon Jun 18 20:12:09 EDT 2007

> On second thought, yes, let's try to spread the word to limit consumption. 
> If
> people don't buy it, people can't sell it-- and then, maybe people will 
> stop
> building it.
> Michael

I few words....let's limit the worlds population,  lets stop interfering 
with nature. what is it that makes humans of greater value than say an 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Marimike6 at cs.com>
To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Design-Bioregional-Energy

> Krista in Clearwater puts her finger on it when she says
> "One of the huge problems with weaning the World off of
> petroleum based energy is to teach people to limit
> their consumption. Here in the USA, many people
> believe it's their God-given right to drive an SUV,
> live in a 7,000 square foot house with a huge green
> lawn, and leave the water running while they brush
> their teeth. Add to all of that, in Florida, it seems
> that most of the population would be happier living in
> Canada. I carry a sweater or jacket in my car
> year-round, because most of the restaurants, movie
> theaters and malls keep the thermostat at 62F(17C)
> when it is 95F(35C) outside. I say, if you can't stand
> the heat, get out of the sub-tropics, but nobody
> listens :(
> "Really, to consider almost any alternative energy plan
> starts with re-educating the vast majority of the
> population, at least here in the US. I would love to
> see us do what Europe did decades ago, and add an
> exhorberant tax to petroleum fuels to hit people in
> the pocketbook. It might be the only way to get them
> to listen. Europeans have smaller cars, smaller homes,
> smaller and more efficient appliances, and still seem
> to have a fine lifestyle."
> Teaching individuals to limit their consumption certainly has value. But
> compared to our worst excesses that's almost a drop in the bucket.
> The big waste has to do with the planet's military machines, corporations 
> and
> developers converting the crust of the land into profit. The problem is 
> that
> they've borrowed a lot of money to stay in business. And they have to pay 
> it
> back with interest. That's one reason we are in a growth economy and not a 
> zero
> growth economy. Every quarter, they have to sell more of whatever it is 
> they
> sell than they did last quarter, or they are losing money. And then the 
> whole
> house of cards collapses.
> The guys that make stuff happen lose their companies, their horse farms,
> their big boats in the bay and all their other stuff, in a matter of 
> months. These
> people are junkies, dependent on their money fix. And the reason people 
> are
> buying those 7000 square foot homes is because these other people have to 
> keep
> building them and offering them for sale-- or they go under.
> This afternoon I drove past a perfectly good shopping center, a dozen 
> years
> old. It does good business. Nonetheless all the stores are having to close 
> so
> the place can be torn down, landfilled and a new one put up in its place.
> Why? The architect has to eat. The builder has to eat. The banks and 
> backers
> and subs and appraisers and bricklayers and concrete finishers and 
> everybody
> else in the county-- they all have to eat. And if they just sit there 
> looking
> at what a nice shopping center already exists on the corner, they lose 
> their
> means of funding next month's expenses with this month's earnings.
> That's the way of the world. If you want to stop it, you can't do it just 
> by
> convincing people to buy local vegetables. Go to the London School of
> Economics, get your doctorate and write a book that will explain to these 
> people on
> their own terms, that they can't just keep charging more and more money to 
> keep
> up with their existing payments. At some point, the whole enterprise has 
> to
> fall off a cliff.
> Until they see that point clearly, they are going to continue chewing up
> whatever is left to chew up, because they do have to make that extra buck. 
> Every
> day, every year until it all collapses.
> I make it all sound very depressing. But that's what's going to happen, in
> the direction we're headed. And when it does, self sufficient little 
> co-ops of
> like minded people will be what's left. So there is worth in permaculture. 
> At
> some point I'm thinking that may be all that we have of real value-- 
> post-technologic expertise.
> On second thought, yes, let's try to spread the word to limit consumption. 
> If
> people don't buy it, people can't sell it-- and then, maybe people will 
> stop
> building it.
> Michael
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> -go to the above link to subscribe to or unsubscribe from this list-

More information about the permaculture mailing list