[permaculture] Bermuda grass removal

lbsaltzman at aol.com lbsaltzman at aol.com
Mon Jun 18 16:54:12 EDT 2007


I want to put in another good word for the trench method. We dug out our rather large backyard by hand and then put trenches around the beds which also help collect some additional water during the rainy season.  We haven't had a much trouble at all and it is pretty easy to cut the grass before it spreads into the beds. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Don Titmus <ujgs2 at 4dirs.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:21 pm
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bermuda grass removal



Jamie, Lisa and All,
 have watched this thread with interest, I live and work in the Phoenix, Az 
rea for many years and deal with bermuda.  Some folks have been able to 
ontrol (operative word here) the grass by digging, by solarizing, and by 
heet mulching with different results. These methods work best when the 
rass has never been starved, meaning the roots are still near the surface. 
ut, if ever starved the roots, you drive them ever deeper and it can no 
onger be controlled by these pervious methods !
By need and frustration and a combination of stratigies my friend Jay and I 
eveloped a method (controversial) but very effective at eradicating 95+% of 
he grass.
I have all the info about it on my web page 
ttp://www.4dirs.com/fdpc/ls.html  click on "Bermuda Removal"
This is not for the light hearted dabbelers, once begun you must complete 
he strategy. Begin now and you will be able to have a fall crop in.
I call it "The Two Edged Sword" method for a reason. Please visit with an 
pen mind and we'll talk more...I'm sure.
Don
our Directions PermaCulture


---- Original Message ----- 
rom: "Lisa Rollens" <rollens at fidnet.com>
o: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
ent: Monday, June 18, 2007 11:39 AM
ubject: Re: [permaculture] Crabgrass, Bermuda grass, etc.

 Jamie,

 Your reply is not inflammatory, it was right on the money and we needed to
 be reminded.  I have been listening intently to this discussion about
 Bermuda grass hoping for a solution to get rid of mine.  Most of my 
 "design
 area", my yard, is covered with Bermuda grass, and having lived in the 
 south
 USA for 20 years, I know that gardening with Bermuda grass is frustrating,
 to say the least, a waste of time, to say more.  I tried every different
 method known to woman to get rid of the Bermuda, and the only thing that
 works for me is to dig up the roots.  then, when the pieces you don't get
 the first time come up, you must be diligent about digging them up as soon
 as they appear. I  leave the soil unmulched for a while so I can see the
 shoots.  I have tried mulching them out with everything, and nothing kills
 the rhizomes.  They just keep going until they find light on the other 
 side
 of the mulch.

 In Edible Forest Gardens, Jacke talks about modifying the site and
 minimizing unwanted plants from the start.  That would certainly refer to
 Bermuda grass.  The idea is that with patience at the beginning, the end
 result could be greater productivity, and certainly less work, in the long
 run.

 I have crab grass here and there but it is nothing compared to Bermuda
 grass.  I really do feel that growing areas need to be free of Bermuda for
 the most productivity, and least work.

 If anyone else has any solutions to the Bermuda grass problem, please 
 speak
 up!

 Lisa, in the Ozarks, USA


 ----- Original Message ----- 
 From: "Jamie Nicol" <souscayrous at gmail.com>
 To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [permaculture] Crabgrass, Bermuda grass, etc.


> Warning: This answer is deliberately inflammatory!
>
> Dear Dieter, why does nature offer you so many problems?
>
> There is no single technique to destroy a single plant because no plant
> grows alone - it is the result of a relational context of which we can
> only
> have the dimmest of notions.
>
> Crab grass is the result of cleared vegetation (perhaps due to your
> efforts
> to clear your land for fear of wildfire?). Broadscale, bare field
> agriculture (whether no-till or not) is the necessary condition for
> desertification in droughty areas (Savory's 'brittle landscapes'). Crab
> grass (and the madrinho you have cut down) is simply the momentary,
> natural
> progression toward revegetation.
>
> Crab grass is just the result of human action.
>
> Cease swimming against the flow of revegetation. Learn how to move with
> the
> flow, subtly effecting the changes toward your desired landscape. Allow
> everything to grow and continue to expand the possible plant diversity by
> continuing to cast seeds and seedballs.
>
> Food does not grow from out of a growing medium but from soil and soil
> does
> not exist where there is not a diverse array of plants filling every
> niche.
> You know this, we all know this! So why do we continue to focus
> exclusively
> upon a 'weed' or a particular crop...
>
> List of seeds to cast: ground cover - luzerne (alfalfa), black medic,
> white
> clover and never remove native leguminous plants; vegetables - all kinds
> of
> beets and radishes, asparagus, miner's lettuce, parsley, white mustard,
> chicory, coriander (cilantro), borage, cardoon, artichoke, Jerusalem
> artichoke (sunchoke), calendula, sunflowers, rocket (rucola), phacelia,
> tomato, aubergine, lentils, chick peas, peas, soya, cereals - maize,
> millet,
> amaranth, tef, wheat, barley, wild oats (always reliable!), trees - black
> and silver wattle (Acacia spp), apricot, peach, nectarine, pomegranate,
> jujube, pistacchio, almond, black locust, honey locust, carob, wild
> cherry,
> feijoa, fig, loquat, black mulberry, persimmon, tagasaste, holm and cork
> oak.
>
> If you do not have the time to move with the flow of nature then you can
> plough, spray, smother...conventional and organic farming do get their
> returns and so will you, unfortunately this includes desertification.
>
> Rain does not fall from the sky but grows up from the ground.
>
> Jamie
> Souscayrous
>
> PS Read Meister Eckhart on 'gelassenheit': leben ohne warum.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/18/07, Dieter Brand <diebrand at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>>   Plantain will grow pretty much anywhere. If anything, my fields with
>>   crabgrass have worse drainage than other places.
>>
>>   Regarding the rye, I have bad news. The crabgrass already shows
>>   through the patches where I had rye in the winter. The rye does of
>>   course display allelophatic properties towards weeds; however, the
>>   allelophatic function weakens after you cut the rye, even if you leave
>>   the straw as mulch. This makes the rye option useless for me since
>>   I don't have enough humidity to grow rye in the summer.
>>
>>   I will try seeding the plantain into the crabgrass invested fields.
>>
>>   Dieter Brand
>>   Portugal
>>
>> Paul Cereghino <paul.cereghino at comcast.net> wrote:  I associate plantain
>> with poor winter drainage. Perhaps that is what the
>> crabgrass can't take. I recall from unknown sources that winter rye is
>> allelopathic, and so makes a good smother crop -- so confirmation
>> through hearsay.
>> Paul Cereghino
>>
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>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
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>> Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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