[permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to Outsource Pres

Primal Parent primalparent at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 18 01:26:44 EDT 2007

i promised to avoid Political arguments from now on, but i just had to jump 
in here and say that i feel there were some cheap shots taken at graham 
(especially in attempting to apply the 'Authoritarian' label on him).  he 
has done some amazing work and inspired tons of individuals and i dont think 
that should be dismissed with a wave of the hand and the word 'privileged' 
(as if 99% of us on here aren't).

to paraphrase wendell berry, "well, if white men have the most influence on 
the world, then i guess it's good that i am a white man...'cause now i can 
influence people to start living in balance. and besides, if it's not a good 
thing...well it's not like i had any choice in the matter"

you should check out what spiralseed is doing.

>From: Tommy Tolson <healinghawk at earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] BodyPolictic-Political Humor-Congress Votes to 
>Outsource Presidency!
>Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:01:12 -0500
>Graham wrote:
> > lets keep the
> > internatrional permaculture forum focussed on positive solutions and
> > ways forward to abundant living in post energy descent futures and what
> > we can do thats positive and practical now...
> >
> > Cheers Graham www.spiralseed.co.uk
> >
>This is a profoundly political statement favoring an arbitrarily
>privileged viewpoint, as far as I can tell.  It comes from someone of
>remarkable stature,
>an authority figure, if you will.  This is a statement of "how it should
>be," asking for no support, a simple, authoritarian declaration, the
>forte of white men.
>How, pray tell, does a positive solution come about without a
>decision-making process?  Yes, we are in energy descent, but saying so
>is another political statement.
>Who decides what is "positive and practical now" for the members of this
>listserv?  How is consensus gathered in the Permaculture community in
>general and on this
>listserv in particular?  Who rules this listserv?  Who may speak
>freely?   Anyone?  No one?
>I am not a farmer and I am not white in more than skin color.  I look
>white until you look close but I'm not white.  I have a Permaculture
>design certificate and I do
>Permaculture designs when they show up to be done.  Even when I live on
>the land, I am not a farmer.  Am I subject to farmer rules on this
>listserv?  Like it or leave it?
>Is that the rule here, too?
>I do not own a positive view of the future.  Two out of three people now
>living are not ecologically supported in a world without cheap oil.  It
>is going to get very ugly very
>quickly, and insisting upon a positive viewpoint is not going to change
>that.  The likelihood is that two thirds of the humans now living will
>die off within the next fifty years.   I can not
>begin to make that appear positive.  Global warming is a one hundred
>year old issue.  The warning was issued one hundred years ago and we
>haven't done anything about it yet.
>Peak Oil was predicted in something like 1957 and few outside the oil
>business (I'm third generation oilfield) still, in 2007, even know what
>Peak Oil means.
>Leonard Cohen sang, "I have seen your future and man, it's murder."
>That's consistent with what I know.
>Thinking we can build out our designs and make them work and live out
>our lives in relative peace while the rest of the world falls apart does
>not strike me as realistic at all, and
>if I have to adopt an attitude based on the illusion that it is
>realistic in order to be on a Permaculture listserv, I find that
>prospect bizarre as hell.
>Are there any adults in charge here?  Or has Permaculture morphed into a
>New Age quasi-theology?  We can think the future away?  Oscar Wilde, I
>think, said "If you tell them
>the truth, make them laugh or they'll kill you." I have neither the
>desire nor the inclination to make you laugh.
>Tommy Tolson
>Austin, TX
>permaculture mailing list
>permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>-go to the above link to subscribe to or unsubscribe from this list-

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