[permaculture] Democratic approaches to Permacultures conflicts?

jedd jedd at progsoc.org
Sun Jul 29 02:04:41 EDT 2007

 Hi Kevin,

 Here's some free comments from someone who's done a PDC and
 read some books.  This subject has crossover into a few other
 topics that come up periodically.  Here in .au at the moment there's
 talk of a political party (I'm sure one of those words is redundant)
 based on permaculture - particularly relevant as it buys into, nay
 legitimises, the notion that we have a democratic process here
 worth engaging.

 But I jump ahead of myself.

> Are there not possible democratic solutions that resolve these open
> questions, and do so in a way that does not further divide us all, or
> place people in turf battles, or cause any of the other internal
> problems that seem to plague the 'movement'?

 The main problem with 'democratic solutions' (apart from the
 solutions buzzword) is that they can provide, and typically enforce,
 a situation that upwards of 50% of the people involved in do not
 actually agree with.

> Anyway, this all seems simple enough it is a wonder that it hasn't
> happened already....?

 This should set the alarm bells off for you.  Were it that simple, it
 would, as you rightly point out, already have happened.

 QED ...

> Is it because there is a lack of trust in democratic process and
> organization in Permaculture circles? Are the individualistic trends
> just too entrenched? (this is a serious question)
> Personally, I tend to trust and follow a democratic process much more
> than i follow any doctrine handed down from above, and i suspect many
> other folks are like me.

 1.  Undoubtedly.  2.  Almost definitely.

 Which democratic processes have you trusted and followed, can I
 ask?  I've yet to see any in my wanderings around the planet, but
 would love to observe some democracy in action (two words) before
 I die.  Ever the eternal optimist, etc.

 I think the doctrine handed down from above (which sounds alarmingly
 like how the culture I find myself living in is designed to operate)
 will discourage an ersatz democratic approach by nature, when it
 discourages it explicitly within the teachings of same.  Well, maybe
 not explicitly, but all the green / permy / earthy types tend to agree
 on a [very] small handful of things, and one of those handful of
 things is the belief that we have to work around the stupidity of our
 respective governments and regulatory bodies.  I hear this repeated
 across most English-speaking countries, and if I spoke any other
 languages, I'm sure I'd hear it elsewhere too.

 I guess it's similar to how the 'Net operates -- interpreting censor-
 ship, stupid regulations, etc as damage and routing around them.

 So it's little wonder that with that rife / right mindset out there,
 few people are willing to emulate the same scenario that got The
 Others (governments and their agencies) into so much trouble.

 I'm not saying that all permies have an adversarial approach to
 their local (in the little l sense) government .. as one or two of
 them may not see things this way.  And I don't want to speak
 for them until I'm their elected leader and have the authority
 to legitimately ignore them.


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