[permaculture] Manioc (casava) guilds?

Jamie R smartplantguy at hotmail.com
Tue Jul 17 16:08:44 EDT 2007


Hi Juergen, while I was living and volunteering in Kalimantan, Indonesia, I 
helped with building some organic farms. Kasava greens were a major staple 
of our diet in that area. After doing some interviews with the local Dayaks 
(the first nations people of the area) I learnt that they interplant them 
with pineapple. They combine these two because the Kasava root and pineapple 
fruit mature at roughly the same time, they both like the same kind of soil, 
and the pineapple doesn't mind being unearthed when the kasava root is 
harvested, because they usually divide the plants after they flower and bare 
fruit anyway.

I attempted planting these two together myself and they grow really well 
together. When I return to Kalimantan, things I'd like to try with this duo 
are a bean that could climb the kasava stalks and add nitrogen to the soil 
and a ground cover to act as a live mulch, most likely a tropical Lotus 
species, again, to help add Nitrogen and so on.

Hopefully that will give you some helpful ideas, cheers.

James Reinert
East Vancouver, BC, Canada


>From: permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org
>Reply-To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:00:28 -0400
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Distiller's Dried Grain with Solubles Recipes
>       (lbsaltzman at aol.com)
>    2. articles by Roland Bunch (Charles de Matas)
>    3. Articles by Roland Bunch (Charles de Matas)
>    4. Manioc (casava) guilds? (Juergen Botz)
>    5. Keyline vs spring loaded shanks (msnow)
>    6. Re: Peak Oil - (Marjory)
>    7. Re: Peak Oil - (Tommy Tolson)
>    8. Re: Manioc (casava) guilds? (Robyn Francis)
>    9. Permaforest Trust July 07 Update- Big Changes-	Taking It to
>       the Next Level (timwinton)
>   10. Organic Farming Beats No-Till? (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:50:28 -0400
>From: lbsaltzman at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Distiller's Dried Grain with Solubles
>	Recipes
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <8C995E08C42A0EB-1188-27C9 at webmail-db07.sysops.aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>This sounds alike a product that I wouldn't eat under any circumstances. It 
>is probably full of pesticides and could well be made from genetically 
>engineered corn. I am sure that it is also nutritionally deficient in many 
>ways compared to organically grown food.That is not the way to get cheap 
>food and it is not really cheap, this kind of product is based on highly 
>subsidized farming that uses unconscionable amounts of fossil fuel to 
>create this sort of pseudo-food.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: woodsjay at cox.net
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Cc: Robyn Williamson <robinet at aapt.net.au>
>Sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 6:06 am
>Subject: [permaculture] Distiller's Dried Grain with Solubles Recipes
>
>
>
>Since cheap food seems to be on a lot of people's minds right now, I though 
>I'd
>write about my first contact with DDGS. It has always seemed reasonable to 
>me
>that I would grow the perennials and let the commercial farmers grow the
>annuals. (That is because I suck at growing things. The trees don't mind. 
>The
>asparagus almost cares. The rhubarb dies.)
>
>What was available to me was 50 lb sacks of DDGS based on corn. (This is 
>Omaha
>NE.) It is a light yellow-brown course powder with a slight winey-yeasty 
>odor.
>It costs $7.00 per sack at the feed store. (Yes, it was expected that it 
>will be
>fed to animals. There is no labelling for human consumption. However, dead
>animals due to feed reflect badly on the store as a supplier. I have 
>assumed
>that the same applies to human beings.)
>
>What follows is a few things that didn't work.
>
>I boiled it to try for soup or porridge. It sits in the bottom of the pot 
>and
>doesn't expand or soften. It has a slightly sour and bitter taste. My wife 
>hated
>it. I thought it was edible. (I think most everything that doesn't bite 
>back is
>edible. Peas are not edible except under special circumstances such as 
>eating at
>a friend's place.)
>
>I added salt and then curry powder. The salt killed the bitter taste. The 
>curry
>powder stayed as a taste of it's own and didn't modify the flavor of the 
>DDGS.
>
>I don't recommend it in any large quantity in soups or porridge.
>
>It is a high protein foodstuff and therefore encourages working with it. It 
>is
>likely (for the corn version only) that much of the protein is unavailable 
>to
>human being. I'm trying to find out how much of the protein the yeast has
>reworked (which would be available). By separating the powder from the 
>little
>gritties a reasonable estimate could be made.
>
>It should be possible to make a DDGS loaded wheat bread which is likely to 
>have
>the weight and consistency of lead hockey pucks.
>
>I am encouraged to try more things. Please feel free to contribute ideas on 
>the
>subject.
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>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:00:20 +0000
>From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [permaculture] articles by Roland Bunch
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <BAY107-F154BAC1447B411A6F3053CC7F80 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Thanks! to whoever posted the links to Roland Bunch's articles.  
>Fascinating
>ideas.  Here are some  links again for anyone who missed these.
>Charles.
>
>
>
>Bunch's paper in PDF; 19 pages
>http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/mba_project/moist/Roland.pdf
>
>
>http://agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory29.html
>
>http://www.agroforestry.net/overstory/overstory20.html
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:14:11 +0000
>From: "Charles de Matas" <cdematas at hotmail.com>
>Subject: [permaculture] Articles by Roland Bunch
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <BAY19-F13C807E68B14C963299C66C7F80 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Another one from Roland Bunch:
>
>http://ppathw3.cals.cornell.edu/mba_project/moist/Mmguat.html
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:13:26 -0300
>From: Juergen Botz <jurgen at botz.org>
>Subject: [permaculture] Manioc (casava) guilds?
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <469BD166.6080402 at botz.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Anyone know what's good to co-plant with manioc?
>
>:j
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: 16 Jul 2007 17:07:15 EDT
>From: msnow at valley.net (msnow)
>Subject: [permaculture] Keyline vs spring loaded shanks
>To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>Message-ID: <48887752 at retriever.VALLEY.NET>
>
>Darren and all,
>
>I work with a livestock guy who wonders if the following is an alternative 
>to a keyline plow:
>
>Krause "flex-wing" coulter chisel.  I think it's a combination disc, 
>subsoiler and chisel.  www.krauseco.com/p/4800_p.htm
>
>Spring loaded shankes, curved, "iron guide and heat-treated steel bushing 
>at the top of the spring holder reduce wear and allow the shank to flex.  
>Greater point loading is available due to the nine-inch triop height."
>
>spring reset chisel shanks...
>
>"parabolic subsoiler shanks (1-1/4" x 36")... better shattering of the soil 
>profile is available between the subsoil shanks - up to 16 inches deep.  
>Combinations of chisel and subsoiler shanks work to break up deeply 
>compacted layers of soil and maintain the appropriate amount of residue to 
>comply with conservation plans.
>
>
>That's question 1.
>Question 2.  I have 8-9 inches topsoil and 8 feet of clay below.  Is a 
>keyline plow appropriate for deepening the topsoil layer into something 
>more usable than a table top for holding water?
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Mike Snow
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:32:55 -0500
>From: "Marjory" <forestgarden at gvtc.com>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil -
>To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <HEECIFPGFCCKACMCONFJGEOCCAAA.forestgarden at gvtc.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Tommy,
>
>Thank you for your honesty.  You don't have 30 years.  I don't believe os
>anyway.  I doubt humanity will extract the last drop of oil - the intensity
>of fighting over dwindling resources will prevent it.
>
>this civilization is over.  That is both the bad and the good news.
>
>Good luck on your qdventrues.  It is dammned hard to get one of those 
>remote
>farms up and functioning, much less a small community, and I sincerely 
>doubt
>eco cities will emerge.  I think one of the major failings of permaculture
>is the false optimism it engenders.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Marjory
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Tommy Tolson
>Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 5:21 PM
>To: permaculture
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil -
>
>
>Marjory wrote:
> > Hi Tommy,
> >
> > I sincerely appreciate that you are getting it about the end of oil, the
> > various plans of the neocons, and your calls to wake up.  Yes, its all
> > happening - its real - and humanity is in for some serious changes.
>Anyone
> > who starts to see this should be scared shitless, and it sounds like you
>are
> > there.  That is good.  That is what it takes to make the necessary
>changes.
> >
> > What are you doing specifically?  I see you are from Austin by your 
>email.
> > That is a fairly large city.  Are you growing your own food there?  Have
>you
> > constructed a water catchment system?  Or perhaps, dug a pond for fish?
> > What designs have you implemented?  Have you created a community where
>there
> > is a focus towards sustainability?
> >
> >
>I am in the observation phase of designing Ecocity Austin.
>
>I live in an apartment.
>
>I'm a disabled vet living on disability compensation.
>
>I buy all my food, either from the store or the farmers market - or the
>coop, if I drive up there.
>
>I drive a gasoline-powered car.
>
>One of my teachers at New College was Richard Heinberg, author of /The
>Party's Over/.
>
>Basically, I'm fucked.  I'm into designing my way out of there without
>weenying out and designing a groovy farm in Bumfuck, Egypt to avoid the
>marauding hoards of starving urbanites after 2030.  I don't want to live
>if human civilization fails.
>
>Thanks for responding.
>
>Smiles.
>Tommy Tolson
>Austin, TX
>_______________________________________________
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>permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:53:35 -0500
>From: Tommy Tolson <healinghawk at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil -
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <469C130F.705 at earthlink.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Hi, Marjory,
>Most curse me for my honesty, rather than thank me.  Thank you for
>changing that.
>I would be overjoyed to have twenty years to get things turned around.
>The neocons have a US military base in every oil-bearing region of the
>world now.  I think you're probably correct about getting all the oil
>out of Earth.  It won't nearly all come out.
>This civilization was over at the Great Depression, when we overshot our
>ecosystem's support capacity with one hundred million people.  It just
>had enough money to buy this much time with ghost acreage.  That's a sad
>thing, really.  We'd be a lot better off if it had gone away then.  As
>it is, we have to deal with its fall.
>I planted a food forest before and it fed us (not completely) after only
>two years.  I just don't want to live that way while all that's good
>about the US people goes away.  I think we are going to see an ecocity
>in Austin.  We're at work on preparing our Power Point presentation to
>an interested business owner who has a good site for the first ecocity
>center.
>New Agers demand optimism.  I don't buy it, either.  It's going to be a
>hard, hard, hard road.  Most won't survive.  We just have to evolve
>ourselves enough to grieve in real time and go on with the work of
>building a new future with whatever we have at our disposal.  The
>alternative is not acceptable.
>
>Smiles.
>Tommy Tolson
>Austin, TX
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:32:24 +1000
>From: Robyn Francis <erda at nor.com.au>
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] Manioc (casava) guilds?
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <C2C2BBB8.3E7B%erda at nor.com.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>On 17/7/07 6:13 AM, "Juergen Botz" <jurgen at botz.org> wrote:
> > Anyone know what's good to co-plant with manioc?
>
>Cassava guilds need to be built around the planting, growing and harvesting
>cycles and regimes of cassava. From planting a cassava cutting to first
>harvest-sized roots takes around 8 months and digging up the roots can
>involve serious excavation at times. It has an extended harvest period and
>is best regarded as living storage since the roots must be eaten or
>processed within 3 days of harvest.
>
>You can do some interesting stacking in space and time with cassava,
>depending on your climate and seasonal factors. Cassava provides a canopy
>for understorey annuals, especially leafy annuals that appreciate shade in
>hot weather/climates like lettuce, coriander and mustard greens do well.
>
>In parts of Asia, companions are often living mulches of peanuts, ground
>nuts and/or creeping crops like kang kong, Ceylon (Indian running) spinach,
>warrigal greens (NZ spinach), pumpkin, choko and vine squash. The cassava
>roots can be harvested as required with minimal damage to the vine crops.
>
>Best to avoid planting cassava around perennials that don't like their 
>roots
>disturbed if you're growing cassava as a root crop.
>
>ciao
>Robyn
>
>
>--
>Pathways to sustainability through
>Accredited Permaculture Training?
>Certificates III & IV and Diploma of Permaculture
>Erda Institute Inc
>
>Robyn Francis
>
>Djanbung Gardens
>Permaculture Education Centre
>PO Box 379 Nimbin NSW 2480
>02-6689 1755  /  0429 147 138
>www.permaculture.com.au
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:41:41 +1000
>From: "timwinton" <timwinton at internode.on.net>
>Subject: [permaculture] Permaforest Trust July 07 Update- Big Changes-
>	Taking It to the Next Level
>To: "Trusties List" <trusties at lists.permaforesttrust.org.au>,	"Trust
>	updates list" <permaforest-trust-list at lists.permaforesttrust.org.au>
>Message-ID: <025301c7c878$36408fe0$0401a8c0 at winton>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>Permaforest Trust has been undergoing some big changes lately. They're all
>about helping make our work more accessible and about taking Permaforest
>Trust into the next phase of development. We'd like to thank you all for
>your support so far and to invite you to remain involved as we move 
>forward.
>We're changing the nature of these updates to provide you with resources 
>for
>'Post Carbon Transition'- tools for community adaptation to peak oil,
>climate change and other limits to growth.  We'd like to invite you to join
>our website (membership now free) and our 'Trusties' email list for post
>carbon resources and discussion. See www.permaforesttrust.org.au to join.
>Summary of changes and links to our website postings listed below. Please
>email info at permaforesttrust.org.au if you would like to be removed from 
>this
>list.
>   a.. Permaforest Trust's Certificate 4 and Diploma in Accredited
>Permaculture Training will be run in Byron Bay starting March 2008. The
>program will train 'Post Carbon Professionals' with a focus on integrating
>traditional hands on permaculture techniques and design with community
>development and project management skills.
>     a.. Press Release
>http://www.permaforesttrust.org.au/Members/timwinton/permaforest-trust-post-carbon-education-comes-to-byron-bay
>     b.. Course Details 
>http://www.permaforesttrust.org.au/apt/introduction/
>
>   b.. We are pleased to announce that current Permaforest Trust manager,
>Jerome Santospirito, will shortly be co-owner of the Permaforest Trust
>sustainability education centre and demonstration farm. Jerome along with
>partner and long time Permaforest Trust participant, Kaylah Ferguson, will
>make the Trust property their home. Jerome plans to scale up the organic
>farming operations, manage Accredited Permaculture Training interns in the
>fine art of commercial organic growing and continue to develop the
>Permaforest Trust education center (more on planned developments for the
>centre in future updates). Jerome will also be assisting with training and
>assessment in the 2008 Byron Bay Accredited Permaculture Training program.
>
>   c.. Tim's Era of Post Carbon Transition video/powerpoint is now 
>available
>for viewing at
>http://bb.r2b2.net/postcarbonv2/The%20Era%20of%20Post%20Carbon%20Transition.html
>This is a part of our initial foray into creating rich media resources for
>the web- we are calling it our 'Low Fi is the New Hi Fi' series. We will
>post related content in future updates.
>
>   d.. Trust member and former Accredited Permaculture Training student 
>Tiku
>Peters is now working on a project in India. See
>http://www.permaforesttrust.org.au/Members/kaylahferguson/vrikshayurveda-the-science-of-plant-life/
>for a report on her encounter with the ancient Indian science of
>Vrikshayurveda.
>That's all for now. All the best from the Permaforest Trust crew,
>
>Tim
>
>--
>Tim Winton
>Permaforest Trust
>Lot 3 Hidden Valley Rd
>Barkers Vale, NSW
>Australia 2474
>phone +61 02 6689 7579
>fax +61 02 9225 9536
>
>www.permaforesttrust.org.au
>
>Offering Certificate 4 and Diploma
>in Accredited Permaculture Training
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:08:12 -0400
>From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lflj at bellsouth.net>
>Subject: [permaculture] Organic Farming Beats No-Till?
>To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Message-ID: <469CDB5C.1030402 at bellsouth.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Organic Farming Beats No-Till?
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:16:41 -0400
>From: STEVE GILMAN <stevegilman at VERIZON.NET>
>To: SANET-MG at LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
>Hi Janet, and all --
>
>Small wonder that conventional chemical no-till adherants are staking
>a claim for garnering carbon credits. They've been touting no-till as
>THE agribusiness salvation for erosion protection and lesser ag
>energy use through reduced tillage, and as the best way to reduce
>agriculture's hefty contribution to  climate change via the soil
>sequestration of carbon.
>
>What they don't dwell on is the method's complete dependance on agri-
>petroleum inputs -- for the herbicides needed to kill the cover crop
>to plant into and for the increased synthetic fertilizers required to
>grow the cash crop in a killed sod environment along with all the
>insecticides, fungicides and other pesticides required to produce the
>crop. Rather, when counting up the carbon credits, the no-till
>researchers and advocates are only counting what they want to count.
>
>In reality, the enhanced use of chemical fertilizers generates major
>amounts of nitrous oxide -- a virulent greenhouse gas 296 times more
>potent per pound than carbon dioxide. There's also all the
>significant embedded energy costs in manufacturing and transporting
>the synthetic fertilizers and herbicides as well as the machinery/
>fuel to apply them. As for erosion control, well maybe, but only in
>terms of non-sustainable, ecologically ruinous trade-offs. Around
>here, (hilly upstate NY) chemical no-till was initially developed to
>enable farmers to plant corn on highly erodable sloping areas -- land
>better off in pasture, hay or trees. Going no-till also required
>considerable investment in special heavy duty planters designed to
>plant into sod -- and larger tractor HP to pull it.
>
>And overall, no-till has found limited value in northern zone areas
>because the killed cover keeps soils cooler longer into the planting
>season, delaying the soil microbial biological nutrient exchange
>activity necessary for plant growth, restricting it's usage to
>central and southern areas.
>
>And as the "organic farming beats no-till" research <www.ars.usda.gov/
>is/pr/2007/070710.htm> demonstrates, even standard organic builds
>more organic matter and sequesters more carbon, than chemical no-till
>-- without co-generating the nitrous oxide, pollutant and pesticide
>"side effects."  In addition, there's exciting research at Rodale and
>elsewhere on Organic no-till which relies on roller/crimpers, etc. to
>mechanically kill the cover crop, while using biologically-based
>fertility enhancements such as compost, legume rotations, amendments,
>etc. to bring in the main crop, while building organic matter and
>sequestering carbon in soil organic matter as well as in  the more
>stable and lasting humus, chitin and fungal glomalin.
>
>Energy-wise, Organic is essentially a solar agriculture, using 30%
>less energy inputs to begin with. Conventional ag is a major
>petrochemical industry, however, completely dependent on a rapidly
>diminishing oil supply and escalating petro-input costs --
>unsustainable into even the near future.
>
>In short, ALL the numbers for organic carbon credits really DO add
>up, even if Organic's OTHER beneficent environmental and health side
>effects (clean air and water, no pesticide poisoning, food security,
>etc.) aren't part of the equation.
>
>Rigorous studies comparing organic and chemical methods are
>critically important if we're to have a valid scientific basis for
>issuing saleable carbon credits to farmers.  I'm not sure who makes
>the decisions awarding carbon credits at the Chicago Exchange, but I
>haven't heard anything to indicate that organic is even on their
>radar screen. We should all be jumping up and down to get Organic at
>the top of the list. As more and more organic agriculture comes on
>line and the price premium drops in the marketplace (already
>happening in dairy) the extra income from carbon credits are a major
>(non-subsidy) incentive for the transformation of (world) agriculture
>to the organic method -- especially when ALL the costs are counted
>and conventional farmers end up having to BUY carbon credits to
>continue their conventional practices, no-till included...
>
>Steve Gilman
>Ruckytucks Farm
>
>On Jul 17, 2007, at 12:00 AM, SANET-MG automatic digest system wrote:
>
> > Date:    Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:37:19 -0700
> > From:    "Babin, Janet" <jbabin at MARKETPLACE.ORG>
> > Subject: Re: Organic Farming Beats No-Till?
> >
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I'm working on a story about the Chicago Climate Exchange's new
> > deadline
> > for farmer participation this year.  The Exchange, as many of you
> > know,
> > pays farmers for 'carbon-credits' that they get for no-till farming on
> > their land.  They they trade them on the exchange.
> >
> > I wonder, are any organic farmers planning to take part in the Climate
> > Exchange this year?  (the deadline is in mid-August).  Because no-till
> > is one of the ways to get money, it would seem to me difficult for
> > organic farmers to participate (somewhat ironic). =20
> >
> > But then I came across John here...and thought I'd better ask.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Janet
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>
>End of permaculture Digest, Vol 54, Issue 18
>********************************************

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