[permaculture] Bacterial Wilt

Don ujgs2 at 4dirs.com
Tue Jul 11 00:20:15 EDT 2006


Prevention is always best -  use vanilla extract dilution and spray to 
confuse to scent of the squash from the prey. And plant the seeds in a mound 
so it does not stay wet.

If you start to see wilt happen try making/using colloidal silver or 
hydrogen peroxide

Then dont plant squash in the same place year after year, rotate.
Wilt happens because of root injury, if all the plant wilts remove and trash 
it...then treat the soil with above.

hope that helps...
Don Titmus
Four Directions PermaCulture

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Kelly" <marshall_mush at yahoo.com>
To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 6:15 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Bacterial Wilt


> Hello friends,
>
> I wonder if anyone might have some insight into
> cures for bacterial wilt on cucumbers, squash,
> etc.  I know that the cucumber beetle is a vector
> of this disease and that controlling the beetle
> helps control the wilt.  I wonder, though, are
> there approaches that directly target the
> bacteria?  Also, will the removal of
> wilted/affected leaves help or hurt the plant's
> chances of survival.
>
> Thank you so much for sharing any insight
>
> Rob
>
> --- permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Germination Rates in Mulch (Niels
>> Corfield)
>>    2. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch (neshura)
>>    3. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch ( roxann )
>>    4. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch (Niels
>> Corfield)
>>    5. heritage peach tree preservation (oliver
>> smith callis)
>>    6. Re: permaculture - Biofuel Illusion (Paul
>> A Cross)
>>    7. Re: permaculture - Biofuel Illusion (Sean
>> Maley)
>>    8. Re: biofuel (D.A. Riley)
>>    9. BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Heritage body
>> 'no' to carbon cuts
>>       (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>>   10. Re: the biofuel illusion (maria morehead)
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:01:18 +0100
>> From: Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture] Germination Rates in
>> Mulch
>> To: permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <44B287DE.7030505 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Anyone got any experience of successfully
>> germinating seeds in a mulch?
>> If so what are your kind of maximum mulch
>> thicknesses?
>> Or is people's experience that there is no
>> germination worth talking about?
>>
>> ATB,
>> Niels
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:06:51 -0400
>> From: neshura <neshura at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
>> in Mulch
>> To: permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
> <5a1097890607101006g449e76dbubb56672fed6918ae at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Silver maple germination is practically 100% in
>> my mulch, but not much
>> use to me. As for smaller herbaceous seeds, I'd
>> be interested to know
>> as well if anyone has an answer to Niel's
>> questions. I'm planning to
>> do a thick sowing of mustard over some new
>> mulch that keeps washing
>> out during the wild rainstorms, but it would be
>> good to know if it is
>> a waste of time or not.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Amanda
>>
>> On 7/10/06, Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Anyone got any experience of successfully
>> germinating seeds in a mulch?
>> > If so what are your kind of maximum mulch
>> thicknesses?
>> > Or is people's experience that there is no
>> germination worth talking about?
>> >
>> > ATB,
>> > Niels
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> > permaculture mailing list
>> > permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> >
>>
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:38:55 +0000
>> From: " roxann "
>> <roxann at ancientearthwisdom.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
>> in Mulch
>> To: "permaculture"
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <20060710173855.19979.qmail at host205.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> i use a hay mulch and i've never tried just
>> putting the seeds down on or in the mulch.
>> usually, i will put a bucketfull of soil where
>> i want to plant (on top of the mulch) and then
>> mulch that after the seeds are up well enough.
>> i was thinking the seeds needed good contact
>> with the soil and moisture to germinate.
>>
>> roxann
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:18:34 +0100
>> From: Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
>> in Mulch
>> To: roxann <roxann at ancientearthwisdom.com>,
>> permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <44B299FA.9070504 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Roxann, Neshura,
>>
>> I think there are a number of conditions seeds
>> will germinate.
>> Seeds are adapted for germination in a
>> leaf-litter, rather than soil. I
>> think mainly.
>> Green manure seeds can germinate and root in
>> brassica hearts.
>> "I have tried ugm (undersown green manures)
>> with various clover and
>> cereal types but have run into problems of
>> establishment and seed
>> falling into the heart of brassacaes and taking
>> root there!"
>> Ian Tollhurst
>>
> http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=65
>>
>> So there is possibility of top-side, or partial
>> imersion-mulch germination.
>>
>> Niels
>>
>> roxann wrote:
>>
>> >i use a hay mulch and i've never tried just
>> putting the seeds down on or in the mulch.
>> usually, i will put a bucketfull of soil where
>> i want to plant (on top of the mulch) and then
>> mulch that after the seeds are up well enough.
>> i was thinking the seeds needed good contact
>> with the soil and moisture to germinate.
>> >
>> >roxann
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>> >permaculture mailing list
>> >permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:53:29 -0600
>> From: "oliver smith callis"
>> <oliversmithcallis at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [permaculture] heritage peach tree
>> preservation
>> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org,
>> bdnow at envirolink.org,
>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org, "International
>> Permaculture List"
>> <permaculture at openpermaculture.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
> <9e4c50650607101153g3202b103w3da33b943fec5332 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> Hello All,
>> I am conducting a heritage fruit tree
>> preservation project in my area, Utah
>> Valley, Utah. I have just come across a stand
>> of peach trees which are
>> around 100 to 120 years old. The grandson of
>> the man who planted the trees
>> said that his great grandmother brought a peach
>> tree here from France which
>> was used as the rootstock. The trees are in bad
>> shape as horses have been
>> kept in the orchard they are in, and may not
>> last long. It seems to me that
>> this would be a good rootstock to preseve as
>> most commercial orchardists in
>> my area say that peach trees don't typically
>> last longer than 25 years. Does
>> anybody have any info on stimulating a root
>> into producing a tree or any
>> other means of propogating the rootstock? An
>> orchardist here suggested
>> "hitting them with nitrates in the spring" to
>> get something off of the
>> roots. I would prefer to use a
>> biodynamic/organic method of propogation, any
>> input would be great.
>> Much appreciated,
>>
>> -- 
>> Oliver Smith Callis
>>
>>
>> "I believe we can accomplish great and
>> profitable things within a new
>> conceptual framework?one that values our
>> legacy, honors diversity, and feeds
>> ecosystems and societies . . . It is time for
>> designs that are creative,
>> abundant, prosperous, and intelligent from the
>> start."
>> William McDonough
>>
>> "The only limit on the number of uses of a
>> resource possible within a system
>> is in the limit of the information and the
>> imagination of the designer...The
>> yield of a system is theoretically unlimited."
>> Bill Mollison
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004559.html
>>
>> (see the "Greening the Desert" flash video
>> below)
>> http://www.permaculture.org.au/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:04:12 -0600
>> From: "Paul A Cross" <charybda at newmex.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture -
>> Biofuel Illusion
>> To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> <005601c6a454$5606eb60$cba0513f at demeter>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Ben wrote:
>> If we're going to idealize a historical
>> subsistence pattern, than let it
>> be that of all the hunter-gather and
>> horticultural groups that comprised
>> the totality of humanity until roughly 10,000
>> years ago, and continue to
>> exist in a few places at present. Their effects
>> on overall biomass and
>> biodiversity were/are almost always nil to
>> positive; their people
>> consistently happier than any other type of
>> society, and with the
>> possible exception of modern industrial
>> society, always healthier than
>> any other; their lives ones of more leisure
>> than any agricultural or
>> industrial society.
>>
>> I question whether the hunter-gatherer culture
>> really ever existed. I'm no
>> anthropologist, but I figure that when we were
>> able to make tools to hunt and
>> gather then we were probably already engaged in
>> creating a polycultural
>> environment that appears to us today as
>> "nature" but in fact has been very
>> carefully influenced by conscious human action
>> for their benefit. And on my
>> more cynical days, I figure that the early
>> cultures just lacked enough people
>> and technology to degrade the ecosystems.
>>
>> The concepts we are developing now of food
>> forests and permaculture
>> farms/gardens, we often think of this as
>> modeling natural systems, yet maybe
>> this is more going back to earlier design
>> strategies that we forgot or
>> abandoned when we moved to systems that we
>> recognize today as agriculture.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Sean Maley <semaley at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture -
>> Biofuel Illusion
>> To: permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
> <20060710194929.38415.qmail at web52805.mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> --- Paul A Cross <charybda at newmex.com> wrote:
>> > I question whether the hunter-gatherer
>> culture really ever existed. I'm no
>> > anthropologist, but I figure that when we
>> were able to make tools to hunt and
>> > gather then we were probably already engaged
>> in creating a polycultural
>> > environment that appears to us today as
>> "nature" but in fact has been very
>> > carefully influenced by conscious human
>> action for their benefit. And on my
>> > more cynical days, I figure that the early
>> cultures just lacked enough people
>> > and technology to degrade the ecosystems.
>>
>> This is a very good point.  Some of the recent
>> writing, that this discussion emanates, states
>> that
>> "civilization" is what is specific, not
>> "hunter-gatherer".  In the infamous words of
>> Duh!, "Either
>> you are with us, or you are against us", we
>> find that our culture isn't very tolerant of
>> competing
>> thought.  The concept of a "hunter-gatherer"
>> becomes hijacked by our lack of adequate words
>> to
>> describe it.  To me, Permaculture serves as the
>> spectrum between a monoculture perception of
>> "hunter-gatherer" and "agriculture" where soil
>> isn't being depleted.  Therefore, this new word
>> -
>> describing a non soil depleting horticultural
>> practice - can be used to better understand
>> indigenous cultures and realize that "hunter
>> gatherers" are more than just animals taking
>> from
>> what nature provides without attempting to
>> alter their natural surroundings.
>>
>> > The concepts we are developing now of food
>> forests and permaculture
>> > farms/gardens, we often think of this as
>> modeling natural systems, yet maybe
>> > this is more going back to earlier design
>> strategies that we forgot or
>> > abandoned when we moved to systems that we
>> recognize today as agriculture.
>>
>> Many humans aren't the only species attempting
>> to reconfigure their surroundings to suit
>> themselves.  Could birds be intending to put
>> seeds in certain locations to their advantage
>> (sanitariums exist for birds, as well as
>> humans)?  We see examples of tool use in
>> Chimpanzees and
>> Gorillas, what other skills do they apply that
>> we formerly associated with our own
>> "intelligence"?
>>  Why do we assume humanity was mindless before
>> civilization, despite being physiologically
>> identical before hand, albeit without the tooth
>> decay and diseases of civilization?  With
>> Chimpanzee being 97% the same genetically as
>> humans, why do we assume we are not ourselves a
>> form
>> of chimpanzee, Pan Sapiens?  If the world
>> wasn't created 10,000 years ago, as suggested
>> in the
>> bible, then when and where in the natural world
>> does intelligence begin?
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
>>
>>
>> -Sean.
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>> protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: "D.A. Riley" <permascape at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] biofuel
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Message-ID:
>>
> <20060710200847.64869.qmail at web56802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> We have a 1980 VW Rabbit that is our commuter
>> car, gets 43 miles per  gallon.  We are running
>> it on Biodiesel, thanks to local activism  by
>> leaders in the biofuel movement at Pacific
>> Biofuel, in collaboration  with USA fuel
>> station (mainstream providers of gasoline).
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2006/June/10/local/stories/01local.htm
>>
>>   or
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.metroactive.com/metro-santa-cruz/06.07.06/nuz-0623.html
>>
>>   Sure, this is Santa Cruz California, the Left
>> coast. Home of many  environmental experiments
>> and fine weather year round. We don't kid
>> ourselves that this is THE answer for the
>> world. As for now, it is a  solution which will
>> most likely lead to other solutions by
>> introducing  a wider population of conventional
>> thinkers to alternatives in fuel  usage.
>>
>>   Making convenient the access of biofuels at a
>> standard filling station  provides a point of
>> education for others who have no idea there's
>> an  alternative. Each time I fill up, I talk
>> with people of every stripe  who then become
>> interested. I don't curse them either because
>> we all  have to start learning somewhere, as I
>> did.
>>
>>   Think diesel generators, tractors, buses,
>> 18-wheelers and other work  vehicles that are
>> throwing amazing amounts of particulates into
>> the  air...and imagine it smelling like a
>> cleaner fish n' chips instead.
>>
>>   Mr. Pittman was right on with his comments
>> and I'm slowly heading in  that direction, for
>> now I'll be decending thataway in a biofueled
>> vehicle.
>>
>>   D.A.
>>
>>
>>   Each One Teach One
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 13:39:10 -0500
>> From: "Kathy Evans"
>> Subject: [permaculture] oil fuel
>> To: "permaculture"
>>
>> Message-ID:
>> <410-22006709183910421 at earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>> I know of someone here in St. Louis who has
>> what she calls a "greasel"
>> vehicle, converted from diesel, I think, that
>> is powered entirely by
>> discarded used oil from places like McDonald's.
>> I'm sure besides being good
>> for the environment this is good for for
>> McDonald's karma as well as her
>> own! I don't know much about emissions from
>> burning such fuel. Kathy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
>> protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:47:04 -0400
>> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr."
>> <lfl at intrex.net>
>> Subject: [permaculture] BBC NEWS |
>> Science/Nature | Heritage body 'no'
>> to carbon cuts
>> To: permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <44B2BCC8.5080609 at intrex.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Heritage body 'no'
>> to carbon cuts
>>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5164476.stm>
>> Last Updated: Monday, 10 July 2006, 09:54 GMT
>> 10:54 UK
>>
>> Coral (World Resources Institute)
>> Protection has been sought for two of the
>> world's major coral reefs
>> The World Heritage Committee (WHC) looks set to
>> reject a motion calling for cuts in greenhouse
>> gas emissions.
>>
>> The WHC meeting in Lithuania heard evidence
>> that 125 sites including the Himalayas and the
>> Great Barrier Reef are at
>> risk from climate change.
>>
>> Countries which are members of the WHC are
>> legally obliged to protect sites. Campaign
>> groups say this can only be done
>> by cutting emissions.
>>
>> The Committee is due to make its decision on
>> Monday.
>>
>> But a draft resolution circulated in advance of
>> the vote suggests that delegates are likely to
>> reject the motion.
>>
>> The world is entitled to expect better from the
>> Committee
>> Peter Roderick
>> Environmental campaigners have reacted with
>> frustration, and blamed the move on lobbying by
>> governments opposed to
>> restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions.
>>
>> "We are extremely angry that the World Heritage
>> Committee has not taken any meaningful action
>> to protect some of the
>> most important sites on Earth from climate
>> change," said Peter Roderick, co-director of
>> the Climate Justice Programme.
>>
>> "They are good at drawing up wonderfully
>> drafted documents, but the idea of actually
>> doing anything seems to pose a problem.
>>
>> "The world is entitled to expect better from
>> the Committee; bending over backwards as a
>> result of fear of the US and
>> Canada will tarnish its reputation."
>>
>> 'Irreparable' damage
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:25:16 -0700
>> From: "maria morehead" <spiralmother at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] the biofuel
>> illusion
>> To: permaculture
>> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
> <5a4c19e50607101425p17e41344wa21dba9f0e96440b at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
>> format=flowed
>>
>> What a great site!  Might you know of a website
>> specifically addressing how
>> you did the home heating conversion necessary
>> or other leads to the Seattle
>> area for this?
>>
>> thanks!
>> M
>>
>> On 7/9/06, Charles de Matas
>> <cdematas at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Kathyann wrote: My home furnace ran 10%
>> filtered restaurant waste oil last
>> > 2
>> > winters without
>> > incident.
>> >
>> > Great way to use WVO.
>> >
>> >
>> > <<Good resources at
>>
> http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
>> > (a favorite site of mine)  >>
>> >
>> > I've only recently come across this site
>> while looking for articles by Sir
>> > Albert Howard.
>> >
>> > Charles.
>> >
>> >
>>
> _________________________________________________________________
>> > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new
>> MSN Search!
>> > http://search.msn.com/
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> > permaculture mailing list
>> > permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> >
>>
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>
>>
>> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14
>> ********************************************
>>
>
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