[permaculture] Bacterial Wilt

Rob Kelly marshall_mush at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 10 21:15:58 EDT 2006


Hello friends,

I wonder if anyone might have some insight into
cures for bacterial wilt on cucumbers, squash,
etc.  I know that the cucumber beetle is a vector
of this disease and that controlling the beetle
helps control the wilt.  I wonder, though, are
there approaches that directly target the
bacteria?  Also, will the removal of
wilted/affected leaves help or hurt the plant's
chances of survival.

Thank you so much for sharing any insight

Rob

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Germination Rates in Mulch (Niels
> Corfield)
>    2. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch (neshura)
>    3. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch ( roxann )
>    4. Re: Germination Rates in Mulch (Niels
> Corfield)
>    5. heritage peach tree preservation (oliver
> smith callis)
>    6. Re: permaculture - Biofuel Illusion (Paul
> A Cross)
>    7. Re: permaculture - Biofuel Illusion (Sean
> Maley)
>    8. Re: biofuel (D.A. Riley)
>    9. BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Heritage body
> 'no' to	carbon cuts
>       (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   10. Re: the biofuel illusion (maria morehead)
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:01:18 +0100
> From: Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Germination Rates in
> Mulch
> To: permaculture
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <44B287DE.7030505 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone got any experience of successfully
> germinating seeds in a mulch?
> If so what are your kind of maximum mulch
> thicknesses?
> Or is people's experience that there is no
> germination worth talking about?
> 
> ATB,
> Niels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:06:51 -0400
> From: neshura <neshura at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
> in Mulch
> To: permaculture
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<5a1097890607101006g449e76dbubb56672fed6918ae at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> Silver maple germination is practically 100% in
> my mulch, but not much
> use to me. As for smaller herbaceous seeds, I'd
> be interested to know
> as well if anyone has an answer to Niel's
> questions. I'm planning to
> do a thick sowing of mustard over some new
> mulch that keeps washing
> out during the wild rainstorms, but it would be
> good to know if it is
> a waste of time or not.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Amanda
> 
> On 7/10/06, Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Anyone got any experience of successfully
> germinating seeds in a mulch?
> > If so what are your kind of maximum mulch
> thicknesses?
> > Or is people's experience that there is no
> germination worth talking about?
> >
> > ATB,
> > Niels
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:38:55 +0000
> From: " roxann "
> <roxann at ancientearthwisdom.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
> in Mulch
> To: "permaculture"
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> <20060710173855.19979.qmail at host205.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> i use a hay mulch and i've never tried just
> putting the seeds down on or in the mulch.
> usually, i will put a bucketfull of soil where
> i want to plant (on top of the mulch) and then
> mulch that after the seeds are up well enough.
> i was thinking the seeds needed good contact
> with the soil and moisture to germinate.
> 
> roxann
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:18:34 +0100
> From: Niels Corfield <mudguard at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Germination Rates
> in Mulch
> To: roxann <roxann at ancientearthwisdom.com>,
> permaculture
> 	<permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <44B299FA.9070504 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> Roxann, Neshura,
> 
> I think there are a number of conditions seeds
> will germinate.
> Seeds are adapted for germination in a
> leaf-litter, rather than soil. I 
> think mainly.
> Green manure seeds can germinate and root in
> brassica hearts.
> "I have tried ugm (undersown green manures)
> with various clover and 
> cereal types but have run into problems of
> establishment and seed 
> falling into the heart of brassacaes and taking
> root there!"
> Ian Tollhurst
>
http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=65
> 
> So there is possibility of top-side, or partial
> imersion-mulch germination.
> 
> Niels
> 
> roxann wrote:
> 
> >i use a hay mulch and i've never tried just
> putting the seeds down on or in the mulch.
> usually, i will put a bucketfull of soil where
> i want to plant (on top of the mulch) and then
> mulch that after the seeds are up well enough.
> i was thinking the seeds needed good contact
> with the soil and moisture to germinate.
> >
> >roxann
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
> >permaculture mailing list
> >permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:53:29 -0600
> From: "oliver smith callis"
> <oliversmithcallis at gmail.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] heritage peach tree
> preservation
> To: nafex at lists.ibiblio.org,
> bdnow at envirolink.org,
> 	permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org,	"International
> Permaculture List"
> 	<permaculture at openpermaculture.org>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<9e4c50650607101153g3202b103w3da33b943fec5332 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252;
> format=flowed
> 
> Hello All,
> I am conducting a heritage fruit tree
> preservation project in my area, Utah
> Valley, Utah. I have just come across a stand
> of peach trees which are
> around 100 to 120 years old. The grandson of
> the man who planted the trees
> said that his great grandmother brought a peach
> tree here from France which
> was used as the rootstock. The trees are in bad
> shape as horses have been
> kept in the orchard they are in, and may not
> last long. It seems to me that
> this would be a good rootstock to preseve as
> most commercial orchardists in
> my area say that peach trees don't typically
> last longer than 25 years. Does
> anybody have any info on stimulating a root
> into producing a tree or any
> other means of propogating the rootstock? An
> orchardist here suggested
> "hitting them with nitrates in the spring" to
> get something off of the
> roots. I would prefer to use a
> biodynamic/organic method of propogation, any
> input would be great.
> Much appreciated,
> 
> -- 
> Oliver Smith Callis
> 
> 
> "I believe we can accomplish great and
> profitable things within a new
> conceptual framework?one that values our
> legacy, honors diversity, and feeds
> ecosystems and societies . . . It is time for
> designs that are creative,
> abundant, prosperous, and intelligent from the
> start."
> William McDonough
> 
> "The only limit on the number of uses of a
> resource possible within a system
> is in the limit of the information and the
> imagination of the designer...The
> yield of a system is theoretically unlimited."
> Bill Mollison
> 
> 
>
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004559.html
> 
> (see the "Greening the Desert" flash video
> below)
> http://www.permaculture.org.au/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:04:12 -0600
> From: "Paul A Cross" <charybda at newmex.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture -
> Biofuel Illusion
> To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> <005601c6a454$5606eb60$cba0513f at demeter>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Ben wrote:
> If we're going to idealize a historical
> subsistence pattern, than let it
> be that of all the hunter-gather and
> horticultural groups that comprised
> the totality of humanity until roughly 10,000
> years ago, and continue to
> exist in a few places at present. Their effects
> on overall biomass and
> biodiversity were/are almost always nil to
> positive; their people
> consistently happier than any other type of
> society, and with the
> possible exception of modern industrial
> society, always healthier than
> any other; their lives ones of more leisure
> than any agricultural or
> industrial society.
> 
> I question whether the hunter-gatherer culture
> really ever existed. I'm no
> anthropologist, but I figure that when we were
> able to make tools to hunt and
> gather then we were probably already engaged in
> creating a polycultural
> environment that appears to us today as
> "nature" but in fact has been very
> carefully influenced by conscious human action
> for their benefit. And on my
> more cynical days, I figure that the early
> cultures just lacked enough people
> and technology to degrade the ecosystems.
> 
> The concepts we are developing now of food
> forests and permaculture
> farms/gardens, we often think of this as
> modeling natural systems, yet maybe
> this is more going back to earlier design
> strategies that we forgot or
> abandoned when we moved to systems that we
> recognize today as agriculture.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sean Maley <semaley at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] permaculture -
> Biofuel Illusion
> To: permaculture
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<20060710194929.38415.qmail at web52805.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> --- Paul A Cross <charybda at newmex.com> wrote:
> > I question whether the hunter-gatherer
> culture really ever existed. I'm no
> > anthropologist, but I figure that when we
> were able to make tools to hunt and
> > gather then we were probably already engaged
> in creating a polycultural
> > environment that appears to us today as
> "nature" but in fact has been very
> > carefully influenced by conscious human
> action for their benefit. And on my
> > more cynical days, I figure that the early
> cultures just lacked enough people
> > and technology to degrade the ecosystems.
> 
> This is a very good point.  Some of the recent
> writing, that this discussion emanates, states
> that
> "civilization" is what is specific, not
> "hunter-gatherer".  In the infamous words of
> Duh!, "Either
> you are with us, or you are against us", we
> find that our culture isn't very tolerant of
> competing
> thought.  The concept of a "hunter-gatherer"
> becomes hijacked by our lack of adequate words
> to
> describe it.  To me, Permaculture serves as the
> spectrum between a monoculture perception of
> "hunter-gatherer" and "agriculture" where soil
> isn't being depleted.  Therefore, this new word
> -
> describing a non soil depleting horticultural
> practice - can be used to better understand
> indigenous cultures and realize that "hunter
> gatherers" are more than just animals taking
> from
> what nature provides without attempting to
> alter their natural surroundings.
> 
> > The concepts we are developing now of food
> forests and permaculture
> > farms/gardens, we often think of this as
> modeling natural systems, yet maybe
> > this is more going back to earlier design
> strategies that we forgot or
> > abandoned when we moved to systems that we
> recognize today as agriculture.
> 
> Many humans aren't the only species attempting
> to reconfigure their surroundings to suit
> themselves.  Could birds be intending to put
> seeds in certain locations to their advantage
> (sanitariums exist for birds, as well as
> humans)?  We see examples of tool use in
> Chimpanzees and
> Gorillas, what other skills do they apply that
> we formerly associated with our own
> "intelligence"?
>  Why do we assume humanity was mindless before
> civilization, despite being physiologically
> identical before hand, albeit without the tooth
> decay and diseases of civilization?  With
> Chimpanzee being 97% the same genetically as
> humans, why do we assume we are not ourselves a
> form
> of chimpanzee, Pan Sapiens?  If the world
> wasn't created 10,000 years ago, as suggested
> in the
> bible, then when and where in the natural world
> does intelligence begin?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo
> 
> 
> -Sean.
> 
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "D.A. Riley" <permascape at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] biofuel
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>
<20060710200847.64869.qmail at web56802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> We have a 1980 VW Rabbit that is our commuter
> car, gets 43 miles per  gallon.  We are running
> it on Biodiesel, thanks to local activism  by
> leaders in the biofuel movement at Pacific
> Biofuel, in collaboration  with USA fuel
> station (mainstream providers of gasoline). 
>   
>  
>
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2006/June/10/local/stories/01local.htm
>   
>   or
>   
>  
>
http://www.metroactive.com/metro-santa-cruz/06.07.06/nuz-0623.html
>   
>   Sure, this is Santa Cruz California, the Left
> coast. Home of many  environmental experiments
> and fine weather year round. We don't kid 
> ourselves that this is THE answer for the
> world. As for now, it is a  solution which will
> most likely lead to other solutions by
> introducing  a wider population of conventional
> thinkers to alternatives in fuel  usage. 
>   
>   Making convenient the access of biofuels at a
> standard filling station  provides a point of
> education for others who have no idea there's
> an  alternative. Each time I fill up, I talk
> with people of every stripe  who then become
> interested. I don't curse them either because
> we all  have to start learning somewhere, as I
> did. 
>   
>   Think diesel generators, tractors, buses,
> 18-wheelers and other work  vehicles that are
> throwing amazing amounts of particulates into
> the  air...and imagine it smelling like a
> cleaner fish n' chips instead. 
>   
>   Mr. Pittman was right on with his comments
> and I'm slowly heading in  that direction, for
> now I'll be decending thataway in a biofueled 
> vehicle.
>   
>   D.A.
>   
>   
>   Each One Teach One
> 
> 
>   
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 13:39:10 -0500
> From: "Kathy Evans" 
> Subject: [permaculture] oil fuel
> To: "permaculture" 
> 
> Message-ID:
> <410-22006709183910421 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> I know of someone here in St. Louis who has
> what she calls a "greasel"
> vehicle, converted from diesel, I think, that
> is powered entirely by
> discarded used oil from places like McDonald's.
> I'm sure besides being good
> for the environment this is good for for
> McDonald's karma as well as her
> own! I don't know much about emissions from
> burning such fuel. Kathy
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
__________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:47:04 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr."
> <lfl at intrex.net>
> Subject: [permaculture] BBC NEWS |
> Science/Nature | Heritage body 'no'
> 	to	carbon cuts
> To: permaculture
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <44B2BCC8.5080609 at intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
> format=flowed
> 
> BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Heritage body 'no'
> to carbon cuts
>
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5164476.stm>
> Last Updated: Monday, 10 July 2006, 09:54 GMT
> 10:54 UK
> 
> Coral (World Resources Institute)
> Protection has been sought for two of the
> world's major coral reefs
> The World Heritage Committee (WHC) looks set to
> reject a motion calling for cuts in greenhouse
> gas emissions.
> 
> The WHC meeting in Lithuania heard evidence
> that 125 sites including the Himalayas and the
> Great Barrier Reef are at 
> risk from climate change.
> 
> Countries which are members of the WHC are
> legally obliged to protect sites. Campaign
> groups say this can only be done 
> by cutting emissions.
> 
> The Committee is due to make its decision on
> Monday.
> 
> But a draft resolution circulated in advance of
> the vote suggests that delegates are likely to
> reject the motion.
> 	
> The world is entitled to expect better from the
> Committee
> Peter Roderick
> Environmental campaigners have reacted with
> frustration, and blamed the move on lobbying by
> governments opposed to 
> restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> "We are extremely angry that the World Heritage
> Committee has not taken any meaningful action
> to protect some of the 
> most important sites on Earth from climate
> change," said Peter Roderick, co-director of
> the Climate Justice Programme.
> 
> "They are good at drawing up wonderfully
> drafted documents, but the idea of actually
> doing anything seems to pose a problem.
> 
> "The world is entitled to expect better from
> the Committee; bending over backwards as a
> result of fear of the US and 
> Canada will tarnish its reputation."
> 
> 'Irreparable' damage
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:25:16 -0700
> From: "maria morehead" <spiralmother at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] the biofuel
> illusion
> To: permaculture
> <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> 
>
<5a4c19e50607101425p17e41344wa21dba9f0e96440b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> 
> What a great site!  Might you know of a website
> specifically addressing how
> you did the home heating conversion necessary
> or other leads to the Seattle
> area for this?
> 
> thanks!
> M
> 
> On 7/9/06, Charles de Matas
> <cdematas at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kathyann wrote: My home furnace ran 10%
> filtered restaurant waste oil last
> > 2
> > winters without
> > incident.
> >
> > Great way to use WVO.
> >
> >
> > <<Good resources at
>
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
> > (a favorite site of mine)  >>
> >
> > I've only recently come across this site
> while looking for articles by Sir
> > Albert Howard.
> >
> > Charles.
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new
> MSN Search!
> > http://search.msn.com/
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
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> 
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 42, Issue 14
> ********************************************
> 




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