[permaculture] Peak Oil

d pfalzer d_pfalzer at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 14 15:23:49 EDT 2005


I think the basis for the debate on whether it is
Better to do permaculture in urban/suburban or rural
areas needs to be an awareness that most raw materials
Originate in rural areas, but the culture all of us
live in Acts to Concentrate materials in Urban areas. 
Do we take advantage of what our destructive culture
will do for us and live in an urban setting?  Or do we
live in a rural setting and invest more of the energy
ourselves to bring together the items we need?  

I think that it is not at all obvious that either
choice is uniformly "better" for everyone.  Both
choices deserve to be valued, IMO.

--- Martin Naylor <martinwnaylor at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> what people have to come to terms with is their
> whole way of life is wrong, and they have to make
> radical and fundemental changes in their
> relationships, [family, work colegues, comunity,
> culture, religion, politics and the earth], and it
> is that simple, but just like meditation it is so
> simple and yet so god damn hard,
> love and freedom are at the begining [pass that on
> to george bush, he might figure that you can not
> fight for freedom, it is all ready thier]
> 
> Bart Anderson <bart at cwo.com> wrote:
> No offense meant, Kaia. Gardening is my favorite
> part of permaculture and
> to me is a good symbol for the entire permaculture
> worldview, but I
> understand your point.
> 
> I think you speak for many in permaculture when you
> say:
> 
> > If you apply the principles on site and in
> community now, peak oil won't
> > make much difference to those who are already
> getting a yield.
> 
> However, I reluctantly find myelf in disagreement.
> There are certain
> periods of history, such as the last 50 years, in
> which one can ignore the
> larger political and economic trends. This was a
> period of relative peace,
> stability and prosperity for many countries. In
> contrast the 1930s and
> 1940s, the time of the Great Depression and WW2,
> were a period when most
> people became caught up in world events. I'm afraid
> that we are now
> entering a similar period of turbulence.
> 
> A polarization between rich and poor, wars over
> resources, a clampdown on
> political dissent. These are some of the political
> and economic signs of
> the transition from cheap energy to expensive
> energy.
> 
> My nephew watched lots of television and found few
> opportunities after high
> school, so he joined the Army and is now in Iraq.
> Some members of my family
> have hit it rich and are making large salaries,
> while others have fallen
> into the underclass. I don't think this is an
> unusual pattern.
> 
> My point is that the larger world will increasingly
> impinge upon the
> personal and the local. The challenge is to come to
> terms with these
> changes in an intelligent and productive way.
> 
> My best, Bart
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kaia Bronte" 
> To: "permaculture" 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
> 
> 
> > Bart, I did not suggest concentrating on
> gardening. That's putting words
> in
> > my mouth.
> >
> > I suggested applying the principles and ethics of
> permaculture here and
> now,
> > based on current reality, not uncertain future
> possibilities. Permaculture
> > is not gardening. It is a system that encompasses
> every aspect of life,
> > work, community.
> >
> > If you apply the principles on site and in
> community now, peak oil won't
> > make much difference to those who are already
> getting a yield. Peak oil is
> a
> > noisy, faddish reason to concentrate on
> permaculture that is outweighed by
> > the many other reasons to apply the principles to
> design. Permaculture is
> > equally significant with or without a peak oil
> crisis.
> >
> > / l.s. / Kaia Bronte
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On
> Behalf Of Bart
> > Anderson
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:50 PM
> > To: Permaculture List
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > >> I wish it were possible, Kaia, to concentrate
> on gardening and "take no
> > thought for tomorrow."
> >
> > 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
> 
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