[permaculture] Peak Oil

Martin Naylor martinwnaylor at yahoo.com.au
Thu Oct 13 19:42:40 EDT 2005


what people have to come to terms with is their whole way of life is wrong, and they have to make radical and fundemental changes in their relationships, [family, work colegues, comunity, culture, religion, politics and the earth], and it is that simple, but just like meditation it is so simple and yet so god damn hard,
love and freedom are at the begining [pass that on to george bush, he might figure that you can not fight for freedom, it is all ready thier]

Bart Anderson <bart at cwo.com> wrote:
No offense meant, Kaia. Gardening is my favorite part of permaculture and
to me is a good symbol for the entire permaculture worldview, but I
understand your point.

I think you speak for many in permaculture when you say:

> If you apply the principles on site and in community now, peak oil won't
> make much difference to those who are already getting a yield.

However, I reluctantly find myelf in disagreement. There are certain
periods of history, such as the last 50 years, in which one can ignore the
larger political and economic trends. This was a period of relative peace,
stability and prosperity for many countries. In contrast the 1930s and
1940s, the time of the Great Depression and WW2, were a period when most
people became caught up in world events. I'm afraid that we are now
entering a similar period of turbulence.

A polarization between rich and poor, wars over resources, a clampdown on
political dissent. These are some of the political and economic signs of
the transition from cheap energy to expensive energy.

My nephew watched lots of television and found few opportunities after high
school, so he joined the Army and is now in Iraq. Some members of my family
have hit it rich and are making large salaries, while others have fallen
into the underclass. I don't think this is an unusual pattern.

My point is that the larger world will increasingly impinge upon the
personal and the local. The challenge is to come to terms with these
changes in an intelligent and productive way.

My best, Bart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaia Bronte" 
To: "permaculture" 

Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil


> Bart, I did not suggest concentrating on gardening. That's putting words
in
> my mouth.
>
> I suggested applying the principles and ethics of permaculture here and
now,
> based on current reality, not uncertain future possibilities. Permaculture
> is not gardening. It is a system that encompasses every aspect of life,
> work, community.
>
> If you apply the principles on site and in community now, peak oil won't
> make much difference to those who are already getting a yield. Peak oil is
a
> noisy, faddish reason to concentrate on permaculture that is outweighed by
> the many other reasons to apply the principles to design. Permaculture is
> equally significant with or without a peak oil crisis.
>
> / l.s. / Kaia Bronte
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Bart
> Anderson
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 4:50 PM
> To: Permaculture List
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Peak Oil
>
>
> 
>
> >> I wish it were possible, Kaia, to concentrate on gardening and "take no
> thought for tomorrow."
>
> 
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>

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