[permaculture] refresher courses

Naomi Coleman scpi at tpg.com.au
Sun Aug 21 05:51:37 EDT 2005


Hi all,

Naomi Coleman here from Southern Cross Permaculture Institute in Victoria 
Australia.

When we studied our PDC in 1991 we too heard about the idea of a  "free 
refresher". However we couldnt find anyone who would offer us one, even when 
we offered to contribute in labour and money.

So instead we organised a PDC course ourselves and invited a number of 
teachers to teach it at our property, and we sat in and learned what we 
could. The next course we taught more and invited less teachers, and now 14 
years later, we mentor teachers on the refresher policy, and offer half 
price courses to people who have a PDC already.

We have found that people tend to value the experience more if they 
contribute something towards the course. We give free courses to people who 
want to try their hand at teaching, if they have done a PDC with us already. 
That way they are familiar with our course style and content, as well as our 
philosophy, and we feel more comfortable letting people we already know 
loose on our students, who after all are paying for the experience.

Graduates who have done a PDC elsewhere are welcomed at half price, and we 
ask that they act as a resource person , especially in design task work.

Our profit margins are fairly marginal, and the half price course ensures 
that our expenses are covered. We usually have at least one person a year 
take up this offer, as well as one mentored teacher a year. We also offer 
one scholarship per course to people from developing countries, but they 
must be able to get themselves here. We too offer couple and group 
discounts.

Since we have been offering these discounts, other teachers in Aust have 
also started to offer them, which I think is positive.

More information is on our website at www.southerncrosspermaculture.com.au

All the best
Naomi


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:00 AM
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16


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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: "Free" Permacuture (Graham)
>   2. Lifestyle Gardening? No Thanks! (Graham)
>   3. Free permaculture (Graham)
>   4. Re: Lions and elephants on the Great Plains?
>      (Lawrence F. London, Jr.)
>   5. Re: "Free" Permacuture (Selwyn Polit)
>   6. Re: "Free" Permacuture (DAVIDMATTHEWEDGE at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:03:18 +0100
> From: Graham <grahamburnett at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Permaculture
> Magazine, Maddy Harland" <maddy at permaculture.co.uk>, PermaLearners
> <permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>, Permaculture UK list
> <permaculture_uk at yahoogroups.co.uk>
> Message-ID: <430602C6.7080504 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Arina Pittman wrote:
>
>>Thanks for your reply Graham - please forward to the UK folks. I vaguely
>>remember hearing about it at my class, back in 1995 (?) with Bill Mollison
>>and Scott Pittman. But, then - my command of English was somewhat weak at
>>that time - so I am not sure if I heard it right.
>>
>>I assumed it was part of pc ethics, that teacher waives his/her fee.... 
>>the
>>rest of cost must be still paid for (food, lodging, advertisement, 
>>handouts,
>>etc). The idea sounds consistent with the ethics - if the class is full, 
>>why
>>not allow someone to sit on, pay for ALL other expenses and refresh the
>>memory. The third ethic - share of surplus.
>>
>>The main question is: is this rule upheld by the pc community at large or 
>>on
>>a voluntary basis? Is it or is it not part of the conduct in pc world?
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Some teachers/organisers may well offer 'free' places to PDC graduates
> on their courses, indeed I've offered places myself to folks who are
> working towards their permaculture diplomas so that they can 'sit in' on
> Design & Introductory courses, particulrly those who have been thinking
> about running courses themselves and want to get a 'feel' for how to do
> it. Interestingly, those who have taken up the offer have insisted on
> making a contribution, even though I've said they weren't expected to.
> They've helped out with cooking and other logistics, as well as making a
> financial contribution. In one case I've been promised some bottles of
> wine as soon as they produce some!
>
> But that is down to my discretion and the fact that I felt able to offer
> this. This is completely different from telling my students that it is
> their 'right' to attend future PC courses 'free of charge' if they feel
> so inclined. There has never been any agreement that this is the case
> that I have heard of.
>
> Cheers Graham
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 20:27:57 +0100
> From: Graham <grahamburnett at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: [permaculture] Lifestyle Gardening? No Thanks!
> To: Permaculture UK list <permaculture_uk at yahoogroups.co.uk>,
> permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Permaculture Magazine,
> Maddy Harland" <maddy at permaculture.co.uk>, Permaculture Association
> <office at permaculture.org.uk>, PermaLearners
> <permalearnersuk at yahoogroups.com>
> Message-ID: <430632BD.7080506 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> A rant against TV 'Reality Gardening Shows' I've just written for the
> Idler magazine;
> http://www.spiralseed.co.uk/lifestyle/
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Graham
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 01:09:17 +0100
> From: Graham <grahamburnett at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: [permaculture] Free permaculture
> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <430674AD.3040104 at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Not sure if all the repies from UK are getting thrpough, hence a fwd of
> another UK teachers POV;
>
> Yes, I agree Graham, the key issue here is that no teacher can speak for
> all other teachers in what they are willing to offer. Whilst I agree
> that if a course is running anyway an extra one might seem to make
> little difference, there are also other issues to be aware of....
> Smaller groups enable more one-to-one attention for students & while
> this adopting this principle might start off as one extra student on a
> course, if this was to continue being offered to all graduates, we could
> end up with as many 'refreshers' on each course as first time students,
> which in my mind would detract from the latter's experience.
>
> Twelve is my ideal number on a course, any more than that gets crowded.
> Ten to twelve is also the realistic minimum  number of students to make
> many courses financially viable. I also teach residential courses in
> places where the maximum accommodation equates to only slightly above
> the break even number of paying students. On Brownsea for instance, it
> is a squeeze fitting in myself, my support tutor & our cook as 
> 'extras'....
>
> One of the four complementary criteria of is 'Symmetry' - which means
> giving back to permaculture (& those who have pioneered it around the
> World) in exchange for what you have got out of it yourself. A fair
> exchange is the co-operative way (remember the principle?).. By taking
> on the support role on a course & being given a chance if wanted to
> teach a session or two, lots can be learned about running courses & by
> fulfilling the role, future teachers can appreciate the value of what is
> being done within it. A free place in exchange for support work is fine
> & indeed an important role in teaching courses, but a purely one-way
> energy exchange is simply parasitic behaviour & not at all 'Fair
> shares'.... Why turn down the opportunity to learn about running courses
> in such a hands-on way? Why do we assume that it would be better to 'do
> nothing' in exchange for a refresher.
>
> And finally we must remember that if we don't support our permaculture
> teachers, they won't be able to afford to carry on running courses
> (plenty have already fallen by the wayside because of this.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Aranya
>
> Graham wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Arina Pittman wrote:
>>
>> >Thanks for your reply Graham - please forward to the UK folks. I vaguely
>> >remember hearing about it at my class, back in 1995 (?) with Bill
>> Mollison
>> >and Scott Pittman. But, then - my command of English was somewhat
>> weak at
>> >that time - so I am not sure if I heard it right.
>> >
>> >I assumed it was part of pc ethics, that teacher waives his/her
>> fee.... the
>> >rest of cost must be still paid for (food, lodging, advertisement,
>> handouts,
>> >etc). The idea sounds consistent with the ethics - if the class is
>> full, why
>> >not allow someone to sit on, pay for ALL other expenses and refresh the
>> >memory. The third ethic - share of surplus.
>> >
>> >The main question is: is this rule upheld by the pc community at
>> large or on
>> >a voluntary basis? Is it or is it not part of the conduct in pc world?
>> > >
>> > >
>> Some teachers/organisers may well offer 'free' places to PDC graduates
>> on their courses, indeed I've offered places myself to folks who are
>> working towards their permaculture diplomas so that they can 'sit in' on
>> Design & Introductory courses, particulrly those who have been thinking
>> about running courses themselves and want to get a 'feel' for how to do
>> it. Interestingly, those who have taken up the offer have insisted on
>> making a contribution, even though I've said they weren't expected to.
>> They've helped out with cooking and other logistics, as well as making a
>> financial contribution. In one case I've been promised some bottles of
>> wine as soon as they produce some!
>>
>> But that is down to my discretion and the fact that I felt able to offer
>> this. This is completely different from telling my students that it is
>> their 'right' to attend future PC courses 'free of charge' if they feel
>> so inclined. There has never been any agreement that this is the case
>> that I have heard of.
>>
>> Cheers Graham
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>> Permaculture
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Permaculture&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=VsWyXYxTTA1UC-WMp1KVeg>
>>     Organic farming
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Organic+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=PY3gV4oIHpk5LlcgnHNV3A>
>>     Worm farming
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Worm+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=y3Q8SEd-_2JIksSJsZv7zg>
>>
>> Farming organic
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Farming+organic&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=pIR70AzQRFX5f15EtrnnxA>
>>     Real estate farming
>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Real+estate+farming&w1=Permaculture&w2=Organic+farming&w3=Worm+farming&w4=Farming+organic&w5=Real+estate+farming&c=5&s=103&.sig=7jXwt1M5Bt6AIWrF7h-BQg>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
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>>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/permalearnersuk>" on the web.
>>            *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 23:15:47 -0400
> From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl at intrex.net>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Lions and elephants on the Great Plains?
> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4306A063.1030404 at intrex.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Toby Hemenway wrote:
>
>> I'm not really into the idea of bringing large carnivores back, but maybe
>> big herbivores? How about back-cloning some mastodons or other biggies 
>> from
>> the pliocene/pleistocene and giving these lonely fruits some company?
>
> Populate the American Prairie and similar regional lands elsewhere with
> low-input, sustainably-grown grass-fed buffalo and bison.  Harvest to
> control populations as needed; market meat within each region - profits
> get plowed back into the willdcrafted, sustainably-grown,
> sustainably-harvested native livestock production system.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 22:56:47 -0500
> From: Selwyn Polit <selwyn at austintx.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050819225415.027549f8 at mail.austintx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
> that phenomenon seems to be around here in Texas.  We are working to
> remove that by offering discounts to past students.  We have tried
> 50% discounts and that has worked quite well.  We also offer
> discounts to people bringing family members.
>
> Selwyn Polit
> Austin, Texas USA
>
>
> At 8/18/2005:05:18 PM -0600, Arina Pittman wrote:
>>Greetings, Permies
>>
>>I recently heard from a grapevine, about an agreement in the permaculture
>>community, under which students with prior certification can take
>>"refresher" permaculture certificate courses free of charge anywhere in 
>>the
>>world. Some people, I hear, use this rule differently, and offer only a
>>price reduction (i.e. instructor agrees to waive his/her fees, but there 
>>is
>>still a fee for attending). Some people have not heard about it.
>>
>>My question for anyone on this list
>>- have you heard about this arrangement from a permaculture instructor
>>- are you a permaculture instructor, who respects and follows this rule
>>(i.e. teaches for free)
>>- are you a repeat student, who has had a chance to benefit from this rule
>>and take repeat courses free of charge, at a reduced price.
>>
>>I would appreciate any feedback about this arrangement.
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Arina M. Pittman
>>EcoVersity
>>Managing Director
>>505-424-9797
>>www.ecoversity.org
>>
>
> __________
> Selwyn Polit
> (512)926-7876
> <mailto:selwyn at austintx.com>selwyn at austintx.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 04:18:50 EDT
> From: DAVIDMATTHEWEDGE at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] "Free" Permacuture
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <88.2d346ac1.3038416a at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Selwyn Polit,
> Austin, Texas USA wrote:
>
> "Hi,
> that phenomenon seems to be around here in Texas."
>
> I'm not surprised that the idea has taken root in Texas.  When I took  my
> design course from Scott Pittman and Bill Mollison near Austin at Fossil 
> Rim
> (then home of Cross Timbers PC institute) in 1996, it was specifically 
> mentioned
> to all course participants by one or the other (or both) of them.
>
> The idea was that PDC graduates could attend same- or inferior-level (i.e.
> fundamentals, introdouctory, etc.) courses and pay only room and board. 
> It
> was said to have been the case from the beginning of PC instruction.
>
> Maybe this can shed some light on the origin of the idea.
>
> David,
> Vend?e, France
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 31, Issue 16
> ********************************************
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>
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