[permaculture] Re: Farmers comments

David Silverstone davidsilverstone at mindspring.com
Fri Apr 1 12:56:34 EST 2005

the words "permanent culture" come to mind after reading these many emails

a mantra i might meditate on before typing another...

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:46 AM
To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [permaculture] Re: Farmers comments

Farmer Dave wrote:

> Just another couple of thoughts on certification etc.  The original 
> plan by Bill
> was to have a flat hierarchy where once you learned pc at a course AND 
> APPLIED IT TO YOUR HOME SITE, or village or whereever, then you could be
> considered somewhat competant to teach a course.  --snip--
> Bill and Scott's original proposal in 1997 to create a teacher's 
> certification
> and to try and patent the word permaculture (and charge everyone a 
> biennial fee
> for use of it)were not devised so much to guarantee a high level of
> qualification but to create a caste system in which as Scott put it 
> "you had to
> earn your chops at the feet of a master."  The other goal was to 
> exclude people
> who they felt were either a threat to their head of cult status or who 
> they
> didn't like.
> Luckily the people who were invited to the meeting in which they 
> pitched these
> schemes had good heads on their shoulders and rejected "taxation without
> representation" and a heirarchy they rightly felt went against 
> everything Bill
> had said in the past about the structure of permaculture.

Scott Pittman wrote:
All of the above is pure fictitious fabrication, and I challange "Farmer 
Dave" to provide one person
outside himself that will be willing to support his claims.  This person 
is borderline!!, and I'm not referring
to the "edge effect".

Farmer Dave wrote:

> Certification? Pshaw! The only "certification" we need is the respect and
> admiration of our neighbors. Especially now that oil is running out.
> Remember what Darwin really said, organisms that compete for a scarce 
> resources
> (fame perhaps) both die out and nature replaces them with cooperaters.
> Farmer Dave
> www.earthsite.net

Scott Pittman wrote:
Pshaw!!! is "Farmer Dave's" way of authenticating his farmer roots - a 
type of certification that is as valid as his claims in
this blathering misal.

I also believe he made up the Darwin quote so I would love to see a 


> Greg, why don't you start your own listserve and see who goes with 
> you?  I think this is ridiculously childish. Please offer up your 
> ideas and inoculate yourself from taking offense if someone doesn't 
> agree with you. I would prefer that you calm down and enjoy the true 
> spirit of the sharing this list offers. Please don't pollute: this 
> very good thing is turning sour.  Cindy @ Riverdance Farms


Scott wrote:

Greg try this sentence "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!", doesn't that feel 

There must be some correlation to adopting the appellation "farmer" that 
causes both the IQ and age to diminish drastically.  Perhaps it doesn't 
happen to
real farmers, maybe I'll write a grant and study this.

Come on Greg!

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