[permaculture] PCD course prices

GlobalCirclenet webmaster at globalcircle.net
Sat Sep 18 01:23:35 EDT 2004

Got to talk with Wendell Berry twice in Santa Fe, NM, great writer, great
farmer. Taught college English. 
You're probably reading from

You in AB or SK? In that huge river valley in the magazines?  

paul at largocreekfarms.com

   Man, despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many
accomplishments, owes the fact of his existence to a six-inch layer of
topsoil – and the fact that it rains. -Anonymous
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/17/2004 at 9:44 PM Paul Park wrote:

>I'm in south western Canada, just north of the Idaho panhandle.  We have
>about 140 frost free days here.  The land I am on has been cleared for
>80 years,  before that it was cedar, fir, larch forest.  We are at about
>2000' and by Canadian standards live in a mild climate.  It does get down
>20 below most winters but the cold and snow don't last too long.
>We chose this valley partly because of the extra growing options - fruit,
>nuts....  Before moving we lived out on the prairie on the east slopes of
>the Rockies, beautiful country but dry with a short growing season and
>winters.  I just started reading Wendell Berry's thoughts about putting
>roots and building community and a life right where you are.  We plan to
>that here.
>I'll go through my favorites and forward useful links you don't have on
>site.  I had a quick look and see some of my favorites as well as lots I
>haven't seen.  Looks like I've got some winter reading coming up.
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "GlobalCirclenet" <webmaster at globalcircle.net>
>To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [permaculture] PCD course prices
>> You're in the northeast I take it?  So encouraging to hear details of
>> someone's current journey toward sustainable living. I'm also encouraged
>> hear of a workshop of that nature. I too picked up on many of those
>> practicing authors long before I had any chance to start pulling things
>> together on my own place. Know of Quinn but haven't read him. What I
>> learned is you can't just follow someone's book or imitate someone else
>> a different situation, different soil, different climate.  It's
>> we draw on anything and everything that we can use to get where we want
>> be. I've had to adapt to the high desert of western NM, under 10"
>> wide diurnal swings, 3 month growing season where nobody farms and land
>> unsuited to anything but cattle and elk. And at 7,000 elev. There's
>> nothing out there to research on our unique growing conditions. For me,
>> there is no single source of good advice and techniques. BD, organic,
>> permaculture - We have to use what works here within the limits of the
>> devas and natural growing.  Try my site at http://herbfarmer.net/#HERBAL
>> esp http://herbfarmer.net/herbgrowing.htm  and let me know if you find
>> something helpful. I'm always adding and revising, so any good stuff we
>> don't have please send along, privately if you like.
>> paul at largocreekfarms.com
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> On 9/17/2004 at 7:42 PM Paul Park wrote:
>> >>I find it very odd that these workshop people don't stress learning
>> >permaculture by actually practicing it. PDCs, books, study groups,
>> mentors,
>> >internships, but forgetting learning by doing, by working with the
>> >and the animals. You see, actually getting out and doing it just
>> >come to mind, does it. <
>> >
>> >On the course I went on, it was abundantly clear that working the land
>> >observation over time was key.
>> >
>> > >I suspect those who are sooo impressed by workshops
>> >have never been introduced to the work of Elliot Coleman, the Nearings,
>> >Ruth Stout, Joel Sallatin, Fukuoka, the Rodales, Jeavons, Steiner, and
>> >many, many others. <
>> >
>> >I'm not sure if you're including me in this group, but I was familiar
>> >all of these authors and many many others before going on the design
>> >course.
>> >During the course, we discussed Fukuoka many times, we visited a farm
>> >intensively grazing poultry a la Sallatin, we visited homesteaders who
>> >built
>> >their own stone home, using forms like the Nearings, we discussed
>> >Biodynamics, we double dug some beds, we sheet mulched, we discussed
>> >work of Emilia Hazelip, a personal friend of the instructor...  One or
>> more
>> >of the students in the group had experience with all of these
>> >writers/teachers and was able to add insight and personal experience to
>> the
>> >teaching.
>> >
>> >>Permaculture as envisioned by Mollison and Holmgren is a complete
>> >It is an ecological system to LIVE IN, to nourish and be nourished by
>> >It is not meant for the "supermarket shelf" approach, like I'll try
>> of
>> >this and a little of that. If workshops don't even intend for
>> >to set up and live in complete systems, then they are simply untrue to
>> >core permaculture vision. I ask those questions for a reason. I'm NOT
>> >arguing that every workshop has to turn out 100% practicing
>> >permaculturalists. I AM saying that if almost nobody comes out
>> >real permaculture, then it's frankly nothing but talk. Literally. All
>> >"ooooh it changed my life", when it changed absolutely nothing, is
>> >lame.<
>> >
>> > Not to be trite, but Rome wasn't built in a day.  When I took the
>> a
>> >little over a year ago, I was living in a big city, with a tiny yard,
>> >vegetable garden and one lovely crab apple tree.  Today, I live on a
>> >farm, I have a beautiful no-till vegetable and flower garden, steps
>> my
>> >kitchen door, my first pullets are debugging the garden and feasting on
>> the
>> >fallen fruit around the trees; they should start laying in a few weeks.
>> >Once a week, we eat a chicken, we raised in a Sallatin style pen.
>> >drying cherries and prunes and waiting for the pears to ripen. My wife
>> >studying with a local herbalist, learning to use locally-grown plants
>> >keep us all healthy and happy.  Physically, my life has
>> I
>> >live....where I get the majority of my food....how I spend my
>> >time......  My life has changed in other ways too.  While on the
>> >was reading a couple of books by Daniel Quinn, many others on the
>> >had
>> >read him too and we spent evenings sharing our thoughts and feelings on
>> >that.  I'm much more conscious of how my choices affect the earth,
>> >around me, my children....
>> >
>> >The Permaculture Design Course didn't create all this change.  I was on
>> the
>> >journey long before I took the course.  The course was a nice stop
>> >the
>> >road, and  for me, it was well worth the small cost .
>> >
>> >>I want to hear about people doing permaculture and how they go about
>> >it. <
>> >
>> >Like I said in my earlier post, I'm still mainly observing.  The things
>> >have done this first year are beginnings....steps in our learning about
>> >permaculture and sustainable living.  My next step is to fence my land
>> I
>> >can add some cattle to my grazing system (following the work of
>> >Does anyone have suggestions for fence posts options that won't poison
>> >earth?  I'm trying to restore some of the old buildings here and
>> >as much as I can from those too far gone to restore.  I'm learning
>> >fruit trees and hope to incorporate the existing trees into a self
>> >regenerating forest garden.  I have been observing the flow of runoff
>> >the
>> >land and I want to use swales or keyline plowing to keep more water on
>> >land and perhaps create a pond for water, ducks, fish, reeds.....
>> >
>> >I was away from my computer for much of the summer, so maybe I missed
>> >of your questions.  Where there specific things you wanted to discuss? 
>> >don't have tons of practical experience, but I have done a few things
>> >I've read a ton.  I looked at your websites and I see you have amassed
>> >great deal of knowledge there.  I look forward to more browsing there.
>> >
>> >Please share some of your experieces with us.
>> >
>> >Peace,
>> >
>> >Paul
>> >
>> >
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