[permaculture] Principles vs. techniques vs. data

Lisa MacIver lisamaciver8 at yahoo.com
Tue Apr 20 13:27:50 EDT 2004

Thanks for the discussion on the definition and scope of permaculture;
it is quite thought provoking.  I presume that I misunderstood the 
response saying that "striving for understanding that is the first 
indication of rigidity".

As an engineer, and the daughter and wife of engineers, I don't find
permaculture very like engineering.  However, at one time I was 
involved with object-oriented software design, and that has parallels.

There's principles of permaculture, and when you combine that with 
data you use various techniques to produce a design.  The principles,
which are value based, are distinct from the techniques of design.
The techniques, such as zones, are proven to work - but not necessarily

the only techniques which can work to produce a good design (as 
evaluated against the principles).  To my mind, at least - this is 
the key issue I'm troubled by.  However, I'd be fine if you'd 
(collectively) say that "yes, other design techniques may work, but 
this is a permaculture list, and we are here to discuss the 
permaculture techniques"

Not to change the subject, but this does I think bring up what I can't
find, which is data, such as particular guilds that work well, and 
better records of the input and outputs of (for example) sheep, and 
(another example) on keeping poultry in orchards, what kind/stocking 
rate/tree variety/s/tree protection works (ducks in the orchard were 
not a sucess for me, though philosophically it sounded great).  Are 
there resources with this type of information?  

And again, thanks everyone.
Lisa in Ashland Oregon

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