[permaculture] Re: permaculture Digest, Vol 2, Issue 21

Anne Schwarz sennaflight at hotmail.com
Thu Mar 20 03:15:46 EST 2003


"Terrific article I have kept the link to called 1491, from the Atlantic
March 2002.  Have actually suggested on this list before."

http://www.house.gov/cannon/Wilderness/1491ThePristineMyth1.htm

Coincidentally, this is where I got my MHC statistic that has caused such a 
stir.  She's right, it is a terrific article The most interesting thing is 
the notion that the Amerindians might have created the Amazon.  Talk about 
permaculture.
Anne Schwarz



----Original Message Follows----
From: permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org
Reply-To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 2, Issue 21
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:35:16 -0500 (EST)

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Today's Topics:

    1. Creating A Life Together (Keith Johnson)
    2. Re: A Pattern Language (available from Pc Activist)
       (Keith Johnson)
    3. Re: MHC and PC-GGGGreat article, disease, population	in
       America in 1491 (Treesa Jane Rogerson)
    4. traveling (Treesa Jane Rogerson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:12:15 -0500
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Creating A Life Together
To: undisclosed-recipients at happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu:
	<keith at permacultureactivist.net>
Message-ID: <3E79318F.2000308 at mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



   Creating a Life Together: Practical Tools to Grow an Intentional
Community
(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/LifeTogether/CreatingaLifeTogether.html),
by Diana Leafe Christian, editor of Communities Magazine, foreword by
Patch Adams. 2003 New Society Publishers, 272 pp. $23 (available from
Permaculture Activist, May 2003). "Creating a Life Together is an
overview of the process of forming new ecovillages and intentional
communities, gleaned from founders of dozens of successful communities
in North America formed since the early '90s. This is what they did, and
what you can do, to create your community dream. It attempts to distill
their hard experience into solid advice on getting started as a group,
creating vision documents, decision-making and governance, agreements
and policies, buying and financing land, communication and process, and
selecting people to join you. It's what works, what doesn't work, and
how not to reinvent the wheel. This information is not only for people
forming new communities - whether or not you already own your land. It
can also be valuable for those of you thinking about joining community
one day - since you, too, will need to know what works. And it's also
for those of you already living in community, since you can only benefit
from knowing what others have done in similar circumstances. "

"A great deal of research and trial-and-error has been assembled here,
and every potential ecovillager should read it. This book will be an
essential guide and manual for the many Permaculture graduates who live
in communities or design for them." --Bill Mollison

"Creating a new culture of living peacefully with each other and the
planet is our number one need--and this is the right book at the right
time. Creating a Life Together will be instrumental in the ecovillage
courses I teach. I can't wait to tell people about it." --Hildur
Jackson, cofounder, Global Ecovillage Network (GEN); co-editor,
Ecovillage Living: Restoring the Earth and Her People.

"A really valuable resource for anyone thinking about intentional
community. I wish I had it years ago." -- Starhawk, author of Webs of
Power, The Spiral Dance, and The Fifth Sacred Thing -- and committed
communitarian.

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 22:27:21 -0500
From: Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Re: A Pattern Language (available from Pc
	Activist)
To: "T. Gray Shaw" <tgray at westberkeley.com>,	Permaculture ibiblio
	<permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3E793518.60703 at mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

When you can order a thousand books at a time, you can charge whatever
you want for it. Notice all the disappearing independently owned
bookstores. The megastores are killing communities and the "pattern
language" of local culture. Meanwhile, if our book business dies, so
might the Permaculture Activist magazine. You're free to invest in that
if you choose. Unless you prefer to "stand strong together" and support
those who are struggling to serve you.
Keith

T. Gray Shaw wrote:

 >Hi Keith,
 >
 >News flash: Amazon sells it for $45.50.
 >
 >>Good news! We just added Christopher Alexander's (et.al.) monumental
 >>>work, A Pattern Language, to our booklist.
 >>
 >When we build walls and borders from fear and hate and gun
 >The hatred turns around and strikes at everyone
 >But when we stand strong together and let love and joy its will
 >Misfortune can't defeat us, it makes us stronger still
 >  - Dan Bern, "Oklahoma"
 >
 >



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:43:24 -0800
From: "Treesa Jane Rogerson" <treemail at cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] MHC and PC-GGGGreat article, disease,
	population	in America in 1491
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <002801c2ee92$dcadd190$0464f93f at treesage>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Terrific article I have kept the link to called 1491, from the Atlantic 
March 2002.  Have actually suggested on this list before.

www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/03/mann.htm




Treesa Rogerson, M.A.

Lands Alive : Ecology By Design

treemail at yahoo.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Marimike6 at cs.com
   To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
   Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 6:47 PM
   Subject: Re: [permaculture] MHC and PC


   In a message dated 3/19/2003 10:32:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
rmhoward at omninet.net.au writes:

     Measles flourishes in conditions of extreme poverty like refugee camps 
or following wars. It is one of the diseases that people are expecting to 
crop up in the expected refigees in Iraq. In 1891 the small newly 
established town of Broomehill in Western Australia had it's first show 
Agricultural Show - a great success for the otherwise remote commuinty on 
the eastern edge of the high rainfall area of the south west. An unfortunate 
consequence was the ferocity f the inffluenza epidemic that killed several 
people in the white community (none of whom had been in the area for more 
than thirty years). The effect of influenza on the black community was not 
noticed.

     Whooping cough spreads explosively through communities being very 
infectious when the herd immunity from the previous epidemic is reduced. 
These affects have nothing to do with race, ethnicity or any other 
distinguishing feature of the people involved. They are function of the 
environmental factors such as population density, health, nutrition and 
hygeine and the dynamics of herd resistance (that is the percentage of teh 
population immune at a particular time. Genetic variability is irrelevant.



   Dear Bob--

   You're very right-- herd immunity and individual immunity are central to 
the spread of infectious disease. As it is true, however, that mothers can 
confer an immunity to their infants, would you know how they can do that if 
"genetic variability is irrelevant'? Would it be through the colostrum? How 
is the immune system primed to identify pathogens the child will encounter 
once born, if not through some sort of genetic mechanism? I'm asking because 
I don't know.

   Today's world is so well mixed that I think it would be very hard to find 
a virgin population with no immunity to the usual worldwide diseases, like 
the flu. In 1891 this would have been much less so. Most influenzas are 
incubated in the pig and duck-tending populations of southeast Asia, so it 
may have been that the Australians had periodically been exposed to the flu 
where the Anglo colonists may not have been at the time. That's just a 
speculation.

   But what I've seen for a fact is that back in the 1960's when Americans 
showed up in odd parts of rural Mexico and Latin America, the more isolated 
Indian populations would die like flies if you brought a cold in with you-- 
they had never been exposed before. This was a hazard one had to be very 
aware of when travelling off the path. Not only out of concern for their 
health-- if you caused the deaths of a number of children and old folks in 
an isolated area, your own health was highly at risk.

   I'm proposing a truce. My observation originally was not that white men 
have superior genes and thus shed disease more easily-- it was that people 
from the Eurasian continent colonized the rest of the world, and brought the 
diseases to which they had some degree of immunity with them. These diseases 
killed a lot of people before the New World populations also achieved 
equilibrium with them-- some as late as the 1960's, some perhaps still 
today. These Europeans-- coincidentally white people-- carried weed seeds 
unwittingly, in the holds of their ships and the seams of their boots. So in 
time, the American field and roadside came to look much like that of 
England. Newfoundland, for instance, never had many wildflowers before the 
Irish showed up, because it didn't have bees. Now it's quite colorful in the 
spring, although the bees still don't look entirely comfortable there.

   The striking fact is that weeds have hardly ever gone in the other 
direction. American volunteer species taking hold on the European continent 
are quite rare, and hardly ever spread aggressively enough to be a nuisance. 
I wonder why.

   Peace, Brother.....

   Mike Elvin








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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 19:50:15 -0800
From: "Treesa Jane Rogerson" <treemail at cruzio.com>
Subject: [permaculture] traveling
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001201c2ee93$d1723040$0464f93f at treesage>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Given the state of it all, I am still planning on traveling much of Europe 
and Asia this summer, starting from Germany and Czech Republic.  This will 
be an open-ended trip depending on what I find, and cash I have.  It can be 
many months.

I wish to stay with people and help them on their projects, land, etc., like 
WWOOF.  I would like to spend time in Asia as well-- Thailand, Vietnam, 
where the WWOOF is not available (to my knowledge).

If anyone has any friends, people on projects I can plug in on, ideas, 
please write back.  I arrive in Europe in the beginning of August.

Thank you.

Treesa



Treesa Rogerson, M.A.

Lands Alive : Ecology By Design

treemail at yahoo.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Keith Johnson
   To: undisclosed-recipients at happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu :
   Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 7:12 PM
   Subject: [permaculture] Creating A Life Together


     Creating a Life Together: Practical Tools to Grow an Intentional 
Community 
(http://www.permacultureactivist.net/LifeTogether/CreatingaLifeTogether.html), 
by Diana Leafe Christian, editor of Communities Magazine, foreword by Patch 
Adams. 2003 New Society Publishers, 272 pp. $23 (available from Permaculture 
Activist, May 2003). "Creating a Life Together is an overview of the process 
of forming new ecovillages and intentional communities, gleaned from 
founders of dozens of successful communities in North America formed since 
the early '90s. This is what they did, and what you can do, to create your 
community dream. It attempts to distill their hard experience into solid 
advice on getting started as a group, creating vision documents, 
decision-making and governance, agreements and policies, buying and 
financing land, communication and process, and selecting people to join you. 
It's what works, what doesn't work, and how not to reinvent the wheel. This 
information is not only
  for people forming new communities - whether or not you already own your 
land. It can also be valuable for those of you thinking about joining 
community one day - since you, too, will need to know what works. And it's 
also for those of you already living in community, since you can only 
benefit from knowing what others have done in similar circumstances. "

   "A great deal of research and trial-and-error has been assembled here, 
and every potential ecovillager should read it. This book will be an 
essential guide and manual for the many Permaculture graduates who live in 
communities or design for them." --Bill Mollison

   "Creating a new culture of living peacefully with each other and the 
planet is our number one need--and this is the right book at the right time. 
Creating a Life Together will be instrumental in the ecovillage courses I 
teach. I can't wait to tell people about it." --Hildur Jackson, cofounder, 
Global Ecovillage Network (GEN); co-editor, Ecovillage Living: Restoring the 
Earth and Her People.

   "A really valuable resource for anyone thinking about intentional 
community. I wish I had it years ago." -- Starhawk, author of Webs of Power, 
The Spiral Dance, and The Fifth Sacred Thing -- and committed communitarian.



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End of permaculture Digest, Vol 2, Issue 21
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