[permaculture] For the survival thread...

Claude Genest genest at together.net
Thu Oct 31 17:38:42 EST 2002

>>> I agree with MArk that "being one with zone 5" is "not at all 
>>> necessarily to develop good designs.......But it'd likely help a 
>>> good deal.
And I strongly agree that there's nothing flaky and new age about 
sitting quietly observing natural systems and patterns....
Mind you, I have come to reject the phrase "common sense"...I figure 
things were common sense, they'd be a common sight !

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 05:06 PM, Graham Burnett wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark" <mpludwig at facstaff.wisc.edu>
> To: <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] For the survival thread...
>> At 02:14 PM 10/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>> The awareness training is so useful in that it develops one's 
>>> ability to
>>> understand the landscape, observing and knowing what is there and 
>>> what
> the
>>> land wants to be.  So much of this is brushed over in the 
>>> Permaculture
>>> design courses, or misinterpreted as an analytical exercise.  To me,
>>> earthskills and caretaking in particular are what you do in zone 5.
>>> Mollison says not to do anything there except learn; well, if you 
>>> are one
>>> with zone 5 then there's pleanty you can do there.  The great
> observations
>>> and illuminations come from zone 5; it is there that you can learn 
>>> to be
> at
>>> home.
>> At the risk of offending, this kind of quasi mystical stuff not only 
>> does
>> very little to inspire me, if I was one of the many deeply religious
> people
>> I have met through the years at organic farming functions I would 
>> likely
>> find it out right offensive.  IF this really is a system for everyone 
>> I
>> would strongly suggest separating the new age gloss form the main 
>> body of
>> the design system, it is not at all necessarily to develop good 
>> designs.
> Just dipped into this thread, so maybe this is out of context, but I 
> can
> only go by what was quoted...
> I agree with Mark that new age flakiness should be viewed with 
> skepticism-
> however I never saw the zone 5 stuff (eg, observing the patterns & 
> processes
> of unintefered with natural systems & wilderness, and from that 
> learning
> deep and profound respect for nature) as being quasi-mystical or new 
> age
> flakiness, just common sense!
> Cheers Graham
> www.landandliberty.co.uk
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