[permaculture] Frank's Farm

jamie nicol jamie at tiscali.fr
Thu Aug 29 15:18:24 EDT 2002

All good suggestions and although I have nowhere near the acreage of Frank I
am looking forward to a group of fellow Pcers coming over to Souscayrous
October 5th to give me advice, especially on the viability and agriculture
possible on some fields I’m thinking of buying. If anyone finds himself or
herself in France (in the Corbières between Carcassonne and Narbonne) on the
5th they’d be very welcome to come and add their ideas to what I suppose,
using John’s words, is a charette. I’m particularly pleased that Emilia
Hazelip will be coming, as her work here in France to introduce Pc has been
tireless, ever since her first PDC in 1985 with Marc Bonfils and Sego


-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-admin at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-admin at lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:12 PM
To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Frank's Farm

jamie nicol wrote:
Hello Kirby,
......... As I understood it, Frank was requesting ways from this group (as
he has been on and off for a year or more now) to implement Pc principles on
his farm of (roughly) 200 acres(?). I forget the size though it was quite
big from a European perspective. Despite receiving much good information
from many on this group, including you, his response seemed to be 'I want to
do it but I just don't have the time or the resources to implement such
techniques.' In my previous email I was trying to suggest that the
experience of Frank was not abnormal: here you have a man who is resolute
about Pc principles but unable to achieve them in the real world. Frank is
not 'industrial agriculture' to use your terminology. It is for this reason
that I'm not quite sure to what you were responding.
I agree that large tracts of land do not appear to lend themselves to
typical Pc solutions.  But IMHO  its mostly a matter of how we
look at the situation.
For example, although I am not currently involved in implementing Pc on my
50+ acres, I hope to get started in the not too distant future.  I am not
I need more machines so I can reshape the land.  I am thinking:
I need a committed community of people.  Pc, at least when a good design
plan is being implemented, appears to be labor intensive.
I will need both more people and more ideas (and maybe some good work
Maybe your situation is similar, Frank
You would  probably benefit from putting on a PDC,
and/or a design Charette, and/or some workshops,
attracting more people to your land, and making the
most of whatever work animals you have.
I can't overemphasize the community idea.
More efficient.  More to share with.  Perhaps
that would be one of the main goals of your
gatherings:  figuring out how to attract people
to help & share.
Doing a PDC could be a lot of work, depending on how
much you are involved in the planning and all the other
A design charette requires a lot less:
6 -10  people with some expertise
a long weekend
good food, accomodations,  design supplies,
and enough information about the property
to get started with.
Workshops obviously can vary as to how
much effort they require.   Good ones
will raise some money.
One thing to keep in mind is that you do not
have to try to accomplish everything in
one PDC, charette, workshop.....
You can always have another event that
will start where you left off.
It is hard to do it yourself,  without more experience,
trying to paint word pictures on this list-serve,
hoping someone will see your land well enough to
understand and be able to make just the right
Food for thought?
One Love (as Chuck Marsh says)

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