Growth of Pc

April Sampson-Kelly askpv at
Sun Jan 11 22:32:20 EST 1998

I started the first Internet teaching project, writing the course for 3
I attended the PC convergence and contributed a little to the internet
discussion group,
Bill and his partner at the time were really hopeful for this media.  I was
surprised by the
gap sometimes between the potential and the limitations for internet
I work six days and week now, have students from Alaska to Remote Northern
Territory Australia,
what I plan to do with the rest of my energies in this field is to let go.
not to build any expectations, not to expect and dictate directions and
just to let the technology and more important the particular type of
students (now graduates)
dictate the growth and direction,
I'm just in for the ride now.
I've been asked to do video link and other ideas come by,
but the bottome line is flexibility and staying in touch with real life
people and
real life practice.
I have written about some of the projects ethics on competition in my paper
for Perth Conference '96
this is on my homepage links.


April Sampson-Kelly ADPA,BCA,MCA,GradSci,PDC
LC Permaculture Visions
leaders in permaculture learning by correspondence
askpv at
sampsms at

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff King <sai at>
To: permaculture at <permaculture at>
Date: Sunday, 11 January 1998 4:53
Subject: Re: Growth of Pc

>YankeePerm wrote:
>> I don't think that playing numbers games and thinking success/failure is
>> way to go.  Of course we have to look at what works and what doesn't
>> Quickie mass courses don't turn out qualified people, in my view.  There
are a
>> number of designs for short programs, not for certification, that suit
>> who just want to design for themselves.  We need longer, more customized,
>> courses for people who will teach others.  Professional designers, well
>> don't need many designers at all or we have failed.  Only when everyone
>> design for him/her self have we taken permaculture as far as it can go.
>> Manwhile it is more important to do our best than to think we understand
if we
>> have succeeded or failed.  The only real failure is failing to do our
>> If the world goes down the tubes anyway, well that is the final lesson in
>> humility.  We REALLY are not in charge, except that we have the power and
>> responsibility to use our personal gifts as effectively and appropriately
>> consistently as possible.
>> Who knows who is teaching out there and how?  How many of my 30 extension
>> agent students from the Philippines are teaching permaculture.  One,
>> Twenty, as likely.  Even people I think won't do anything with the
>> surprise me by suddently blooming forth, a decade or more after the
>> Nothing done as well as we can from our deepest convictions is done
>> As far as Bill's mass permaculture baptism experience in California is
>> concerned, well it is done.  It isn't anything that should be repeated,
>> we've got to live with the results, and we'll find out over the next few
>> what the more conspicuous results are.  Personally, I'm glad it was
>> and not Florida.
>> What permaculture needs, in my opinion, is not better numbers but better
>> teaching.  This goes for Bill as much as anyone.  We need longer programs
>> where people have more shared experience, longer times to integrate new
>> experiences, longer times to form questions and protestations and extend
>> discussions, and longer times to do at least one really good design as
part of
>> the certification process.  We also require our students to practice
>> explaining permaculture a few times during the course and then we discuss
>> it when, techniques, etc.
>> In general, I'd like to see someone organize a program some of us with
>> term and diverse experience to come and teach--a workshop or series of
>> workshops for teachers.  And I'd like to see everyone in permaculture,
>> Bill on down, take the spirit of the non-competition ethic a little more
>> seriously.  This includes cutting back, at least, on the behind the
>> backbiting that is in fact an aspect of competition in this movement.
While I
>> have come to learn not to be surprised that we bring the flawed behaviors
>> the mainstream society into permaculature, I think it is very useful to
>> identify these behaviors and start to eliminate them from our own
>> For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since
>> Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses,
>> consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and now correspondence
>> courses via email.  One is now underway.  Next Live program:  Paraguay,
>> 8/10-22/98. Internships available. Copyright, 1997, Dan & Cynthia
>> P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA  YankeePerm at
>> We don't have time to rush.
>> A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at
> If growth of pc is a goal, why not put a pc course on the internet or
>web, so people located throughout the world, dealing with their own
>environments, markets, economies, strengths, and social situations,
>could learn and impliment the principles... isn't implimentation of pc
>more important than charging money, and setting up hierarchies for the
>transfer of such knowledge and principles?  I have been on this
>listserve, and am operating in a situation that surely could benefit
>from such principles, but cannot afford to travel, or pay to learn; yet
>what I learn and impliment, and share with others in the local
>community, could further the goals of pc, moreso than the positioning of
>titles or accredations next to my name, and the econmomic and
>environmental benefits of implimenting such knowledge should be my
>reward for pursuing and learning pc, not my expectation of financial
>gain by charging others for such wisdom.  Granted information and the
>dissemination of info has value, but with technologies available like
>this, and the imminent problems we as a global community face without
>implimentation of pc, isn't it a small upfront investment to be made by
>the pc community that presently exists?  Further,  isn't it reasonable
>to expect that the pc movement would see significant return to that
>investment as the feedback from new practitioners validates or refines
>certain practices or principles, so as to increase the underlying value
>of its theories and concepts?

More information about the permaculture mailing list