From michel at netlabelism.net Wed Nov 7 18:12:39 2007 From: michel at netlabelism.net (Michel Berghs) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:12:39 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] Persbericht In-Reply-To: <622918ba0711030934g71b970ean95c6782cb33b163b@mail.gmail.com> References: <622918ba0711030934g71b970ean95c6782cb33b163b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <622918ba0711071512x74d902bfs15f118a2f04589ea@mail.gmail.com> Is er muziek na Sabam? debatavond Sabam vs. Creative Commons Door de opkomst van het internet is Sabam teruggekatapulteerd naar de middeleeuwen. Terwijl de laatste 50 jaar cultuur steeds meer en meer in priv?handen terecht kwam (denk maar aan platenmaatschappijen, Hollywood, Clear Channel, uitgeverijen, ... ), strooide het internet roet in het eten van deze grote cultuurbonzen. Downloaden van sites als Napster en Kazaa werd modieuzer dan betalen. Maar wat met de rechten en inkomsten van de artiest? Animo Leuven en netlabelism.net proberen via een debat met de hoofdrolspelers de culturele toekomst te verkennen. Gastsprekers: Dirk Vervenne (Sabam) Marco Raaphorst (muzikant en Creative Commons activist Nl.) Jasper Verdin (muzikant en jurist Universal Music Belgium) Akwalek (artiest en electrobel.be member) Sabam is de Belgische organisatie die de inkomsten op de produkten van componisten en auteurs beheert. (zie ook Wikipedia) Creative Commons is een legaal kader voor de nieuwe "sharing" economie, met deze licentie mag je artisitiek werk downloaden, kopi?ren en verspreiden. (zie ook Wikipedia) Het debat zal doorgaan op woensdag 14 nov. 20:00, in Sojo (Eenmeilaan 35 - 3010 Kessel-lo). De inkom bedraagt ? 1,00. Na het debat geven Animo Leuven en netlabelism.net een gratis vat om deze avond gezellig af te ronden. link: http://netlabelism.net/node/191 flyer: http://lh3.google.com/embeemwe/RyIRW1_lI_I/AAAAAAAAA3s/J2u3O0mm9cU/s288/debat.png -- Michel Berghs voorzitter vzw. MUP www.netlabelism.net +32 484 61 80 87 From michel.berghs at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 03:53:16 2007 From: michel.berghs at gmail.com (Michel Berghs) Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:53:16 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] venues in Belgium In-Reply-To: <88A02A8E-1E77-42B9-90C6-D7AA59781B91@jamyoung.net> References: <88A02A8E-1E77-42B9-90C6-D7AA59781B91@jamyoung.net> Message-ID: <47341FFC.6070504@gmail.com> Hi Jamison, hope to see you at our debate (Dutch spoken): woensdag 14 nov. 20:00, in Sojo (Eenmeilaan 35 - 3010 Kessel-lo) link: http://netlabelism.net/node/191 Michel Berghs Jamison Young wrote: > Hi Belgium Creative Commons, > Over the last month i have performed music in Belgium. I visited > spaces and met people that had an interest in Creative Commons. These > organizations were basically non-profit organizations or community > groups bringing entertainment to the community. > > I'm interested to speak to people involved in CC in Belgium that are > interested in helping communicate creative commons to these groups. > best, > Jamison > > _______________________________________________ > Cc-be mailing list > Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be > -- Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! +32 484 61 80 87 From bruno at indymedia.be Mon Nov 19 03:13:52 2007 From: bruno at indymedia.be (Bruno De Bondt) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:13:52 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem Message-ID: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Hello list, The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between presentations. Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for artists who are a member of Sabam? Thanks, -- bruno bruno at indymedia.be -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [FOSDEM-FIT] Music between talks Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:26:30 +0100 From: Jan-Frederik Martens Reply-To: fit at lists.fosdem.org To: fit at lists.fosdem.org References: <4740B8CD.6000903 at fosdem.org> Pascal Bleser wrote: > But it's just an idea, really. What do you think ? A legal/financial remark: You may think it's crazy, but even if we use Creative Commons or similar music, we'll still have to pay the bastards of the 'Billijke Vergoeding': http://www.debillijkevergoeding.be (down for the moment) http://www.unizo.be/viewobj.jsp?article=10014 (dutch) http://www.chiro.be/artikel.php?id=672 (dutch) In short: Sabam needs to be payed for composer/author royalties (does not apply here), De billijke vergoeding has to be payed for the performance. I've had a quite unpleasant e-mail correspondance with them a couple of years ago about a similar situation. JF -- --------------------------- Jan-Frederik Martens jfmartens at fosdem.org FOSDEM 2008 : 23-24/02 2008 --------------------------- _______________________________________________ FIT mailing list FIT at lists.fosdem.org http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/fit -- Benefietconcert Indymedia.be - 23/11 - Novano?s, Brussel Info: http://www.indymedia.be/extra/2007/11/23/index.html Bruno De Bondt Web/tech Indymedia.be bruno at indymedia.be http://www.indymedia.be PGP key: http://brunodbo.be/files/docs/brunoatindymediabe_pubkey.asc ID: D48B28E2 Fingerprint: C25C 3B90 4A10 FBBC 3B22 4C7D 3AFB AD2C D48B 28E2 From mark at markvdb.be Mon Nov 19 05:52:22 2007 From: mark at markvdb.be (Mark Van den Borre) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:52:22 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Message-ID: 2007/11/19, Bruno De Bondt : > Hello list, > > The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting > held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between > presentations. > > Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is > strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for > artists who are a member of Sabam? This is legally correct. But at least theoretically, there is a way for the CC artists played to claim their share of the "billijke vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" contribution paid by FOSDEM vzw/asbl. I have once looked up this mechanism "on the interwebs", and found it. Unfortunately, I can't find the relevant information anymore. I will follow this up with the other FOSDEM people and see if there is any interest in testing this "claim your share" principle. Mark -- Mark Van den Borre Noormannenstraat 113 3000 Leuven, Belgi? +32 486 961726 From michel at netlabelism.net Mon Nov 19 06:27:44 2007 From: michel at netlabelism.net (Michel Berghs) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:27:44 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Message-ID: <622918ba0711190327h78769d43wdac9bdb012b3a800@mail.gmail.com> If you only play music with the CC license, you don't have to pay Sabam (see http://netlabelism.net/parties), because you do it in "an act of trust" (te goedertrouw). If there are artists with music under CC license and they are member of a collectors society like Sabam, they are incorrect, and Sabam should sue them. About "billijke vergoeding": the CC license gives explicitly the permission to distribute the music, i.e. play music, so I would refuse to pay this kind of "blackmail". If you're lookin for CC music, have a look at my site: http://netlabelism.net/topbits/bystyle Michel Berghs On Nov 19, 2007 11:52 AM, Mark Van den Borre wrote: > 2007/11/19, Bruno De Bondt : > > Hello list, > > > > The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting > > held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between > > presentations. > > > > Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is > > strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for > > artists who are a member of Sabam? > This is legally correct. But at least theoretically, there is a way > for the CC artists played to claim their share of the "billijke > vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" contribution paid by FOSDEM > vzw/asbl. I have once looked up this mechanism "on the interwebs", and > found it. Unfortunately, I can't find the relevant information > anymore. > > I will follow this up with the other FOSDEM people and see if there is > any interest in testing this "claim your share" principle. > > Mark > -- > Mark Van den Borre > Noormannenstraat 113 > 3000 Leuven, Belgi? > +32 486 961726 > > _______________________________________________ > Cc-be mailing list > Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be > -- Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! www.netlabelism.net +32 484 61 80 87 From michel at netlabelism.net Mon Nov 19 06:35:08 2007 From: michel at netlabelism.net (Michel Berghs) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:35:08 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] Fwd: CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: <622918ba0711190327h78769d43wdac9bdb012b3a800@mail.gmail.com> References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> <622918ba0711190327h78769d43wdac9bdb012b3a800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <622918ba0711190335h477d9d5cq37749fd6e010c554@mail.gmail.com> If you only play music with the CC license, you don't have to pay Sabam (see http://netlabelism.net/parties), because you do it in "an act of trust" (te goedertrouw). If there are artists with music under CC license and they are member of a collectors society like Sabam, they are incorrect, and Sabam should sue them. About "billijke vergoeding": the CC license gives explicitly the permission to distribute the music, i.e. play music, so I would refuse to pay this kind of "blackmail". If you're lookin for CC music, have a look at my site: http://netlabelism.net/topbits/bystyle Michel Berghs On Nov 19, 2007 11:52 AM, Mark Van den Borre wrote: > 2007/11/19, Bruno De Bondt : > > Hello list, > > > > The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting > > held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between > > presentations. > > > > Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is > > strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for > > artists who are a member of Sabam? > This is legally correct. But at least theoretically, there is a way > for the CC artists played to claim their share of the "billijke > vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" contribution paid by FOSDEM > vzw/asbl. I have once looked up this mechanism "on the interwebs", and > found it. Unfortunately, I can't find the relevant information > anymore. > > I will follow this up with the other FOSDEM people and see if there is > any interest in testing this "claim your share" principle. > > Mark > -- > Mark Van den Borre > Noormannenstraat 113 > 3000 Leuven, Belgi? > +32 486 961726 > > _______________________________________________ > Cc-be mailing list > Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be > -- Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! www.netlabelism.net +32 484 61 80 87 -- Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! www.netlabelism.net +32 484 61 80 87 From joeri at symbiotix.net Mon Nov 19 06:40:12 2007 From: joeri at symbiotix.net (Joeri Poesen) Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:40:12 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] Fwd: CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: <622918ba0711190335h477d9d5cq37749fd6e010c554@mail.gmail.com> References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> <622918ba0711190327h78769d43wdac9bdb012b3a800@mail.gmail.com> <622918ba0711190335h477d9d5cq37749fd6e010c554@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4741761C.3030906@symbiotix.net> let me clearly state I'm firmly on FOSDEM's side. 1. Actually, the Belgian CC license explicitly states that the license does not change anything to the "billijke vergoeding". 2. you get permission to distribute, but that saying that distributing equals playing (or performing) is a personal interpretation 3. contrast the Belgian CC license with the Spanish one: the Spanish one explictly allows public performance, while the Belgian one does not. My question: can a "billijke vergoeding" be demanded on music published under a non-Belgian CC license? If the problem lies solely with the Belgian CC license, a solution would be to not use Belgian CC'd music, correct? Thanks J. Michel Berghs wrote: > If you only play music with the CC license, you don't have to pay > Sabam (see http://netlabelism.net/parties), because you do it in "an > act of trust" (te goedertrouw). If there are artists with music under > CC license and they are member of a collectors society like Sabam, > they are incorrect, and Sabam should sue them. About "billijke > vergoeding": the CC license gives explicitly the permission to > distribute the music, i.e. play music, so I would refuse to pay this > kind of "blackmail". > > If you're lookin for CC music, have a look at my site: > http://netlabelism.net/topbits/bystyle > > Michel Berghs > > > > On Nov 19, 2007 11:52 AM, Mark Van den Borre wrote: > >> 2007/11/19, Bruno De Bondt : >> >>> Hello list, >>> >>> The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting >>> held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between >>> presentations. >>> >>> Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is >>> strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for >>> artists who are a member of Sabam? >>> >> This is legally correct. But at least theoretically, there is a way >> for the CC artists played to claim their share of the "billijke >> vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" contribution paid by FOSDEM >> vzw/asbl. I have once looked up this mechanism "on the interwebs", and >> found it. Unfortunately, I can't find the relevant information >> anymore. >> >> I will follow this up with the other FOSDEM people and see if there is >> any interest in testing this "claim your share" principle. >> >> Mark >> -- >> Mark Van den Borre >> Noormannenstraat 113 >> 3000 Leuven, Belgi? >> +32 486 961726 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cc-be mailing list >> Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be >> >> > > > > -- > Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! > > www.netlabelism.net > +32 484 61 80 87 > > > > -- Joeri Poesen Symbiotix Diestsesteenweg 681 3010 Kessel-lo t: +32 (0) 478 800 719 f: +32 (0) 70 40 80 15 joeri at symbiotix.net www.symbiotix.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-be/attachments/20071119/ce38856e/attachment.html From michel at netlabelism.net Mon Nov 26 07:31:39 2007 From: michel at netlabelism.net (Michel Berghs) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:31:39 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] Studiedag: auteursrechten Message-ID: <622918ba0711260431x526e89caka64f7a9542ed1ee7@mail.gmail.com> Studiedag: auteursrechten en de kleine organisator Zaterdag 15 december '07, vanaf 14u, 't Ey te Belsele Beste redactie, Auteursrechten, iedereen heeft ermee te maken: men koopt een boek of CD, bezoekt een film of organiseert een concert en men betaalt, willens nillens, een deel auteursrechten. Auteursrechten zijn een belangrijke bron van inkomsten van kunstenaars. Anderzijds wordt er bij de organisatoren van allerlei culturele manifestaties wel eens gesakkerd over de auteursrechten die ze dienen te betalen, zeker kleinere organisatoren voelen het beslag van auteursrechten als een bedreiging voor hun voortbestaan. Het Masereelfonds en de vereniging van kleine podia - twee organisaties van wie de achterban regelmatig auteursrechten dient op te hoesten - organiseren een studiedag over auteursrechten. Dit op zaterdag 15 december vanaf 14u. Met deskundig commentaar, getuigenissen en debat tussen voor- en tegenstanders van auteursrechten proberen we een genuanceerde kijk te geven op de problematiek. Maar er is ook aandacht voor bewegingen als 'creative commons', waarvan vele leden kunstenaars bewust afzien van hun auteursrechten. Graag geven we u het programma: 14u: Inleiding met Katrien Vanderperre (Univ. Gent) (o.v.): Juridische uitleg over auteursrechten en Marco Raaphorst (muzikant, producent, creative commons) over de filosofie van auteursrechten. Pauze met muzikaal intermezzo door Logos 15u: Getuigenissen door jonge muzikanten over hun ervaringen met Sabam, door Willy Verkoelen hoe auteursrechten de financi?le gezondheid van het Toogenblik (klein podium in Haren/Brussel) en Bart De Wilde over de problematische relatie van beginnende kunstenaars met Sabam Pauze met muzikaal intermezzo door Logos 16u: Panelgesprek over 'auteursrechten en kleine organisaties', m.m.v. Dirk Van Der Speet (Kleine podia), Godfried Willem Raes (kunstenaar, Logos), Marco Raaphorst (creative commons), Serge Vloeberghs (SABAM, collectieve inningen) en Dirk Van Soom (SABAM, individuele inningen) Ca. 17u30 wordt de studiedag afgesloten met een demonstratiecaf?, waarin Michel Berghs (netlabelism) toont wat er allemaal aan auteursrechtenvrije muziek te vinden is. Deze studiedag heeft plaats in de lokale van 'T Ey, Koutermolenstraat 6B, 9111 Belsele (Sint-Niklaas), zoals vermeld op zaterdag 15 december '07, vanaf 14u. Als bijdrage in de organisatiekosten wordt er 3 euro gevraagd. Mogen we u vriendelijk verzoeken ruim aandacht te besteden aan deze interessante dag. Met vriendelijke groeten, Bernard Desmet, Masereelfonds, 02/502 38 80, www.masereelfonds.be -- Jedermann sein eigner Fussball ! www.netlabelism.net +32 484 61 80 87 From severine.dusollier at fundp.ac.be Tue Nov 27 12:00:28 2007 From: severine.dusollier at fundp.ac.be (Severine Dusollier) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:00:28 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Message-ID: Dear Bruno, If you play only CC-licensed music and can prove it, you should not pay anything to the Sabam. I would suggest you get in contact with the responsible of those perceptions at Sabam and explain your case. >The responsible for brussels is : >Philippe Gontier >G?rant de la Filiale >Sabam - R?gion de Bruxelles Capitale >Rue d'Arlon 75-77 bte 2 >1040 Bruxelles >Tel :++32 2 286 84 74 Fax ++32 2 742 24 60 E-mail : agent.bruxelles at sabam.be If there is any problem I could intervene. That implies however that you can demonstrate that all the music you will play is licensed under CC. BUT (and it is a big BUT), it is true that if some artists are members of the Sabam (and of any European collecting society with which SABAM collaborates to collect copyright royalties), those artists are normally not allowed to license their works under a CC license. Therefore, for those artists, the licenses they put on their works is not valid for the Sabam. THis is a big issue right now for CC. Anyway, I would not raise this point to the Sabam, let them find this legal intricacy by themselves. If you have any more questions, you can always call or email me S?verine belgium CC project leader Professor - University of Namur CRID (Research Center in Computer Law)- Head of the IPR Department Rempart de la Vierge 5 T?l: +32 81 72 47 60 5000 NAMUR Fax: +32 81 72 52 02 BELGIIUM severine.dusollier at fundp.ac.be http://www.crid.be >Hello list, > >The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting >held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between >presentations. > >Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is >strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for >artists who are a member of Sabam? > >Thanks, >-- bruno >bruno at indymedia.be > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Re: [FOSDEM-FIT] Music between talks >Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:26:30 +0100 >From: Jan-Frederik Martens >Reply-To: fit at lists.fosdem.org >To: fit at lists.fosdem.org >References: <4740B8CD.6000903 at fosdem.org> > > > >Pascal Bleser wrote: >> But it's just an idea, really. What do you think ? > >A legal/financial remark: >You may think it's crazy, but even if we use Creative Commons or similar >music, we'll still have to pay the bastards of the 'Billijke Vergoeding': > >http://www.debillijkevergoeding.be (down for the moment) >http://www.unizo.be/viewobj.jsp?article=10014 (dutch) >http://www.chiro.be/artikel.php?id=672 (dutch) > >In short: Sabam needs to be payed for composer/author royalties (does >not apply here), De billijke vergoeding has to be payed for the performance. > >I've had a quite unpleasant e-mail correspondance with them a couple of >years ago about a similar situation. > >JF > > >-- >--------------------------- >Jan-Frederik Martens >jfmartens at fosdem.org >FOSDEM 2008 : 23-24/02 2008 >--------------------------- >_______________________________________________ >FIT mailing list >FIT at lists.fosdem.org >http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/fit > > >-- > >Benefietconcert Indymedia.be - 23/11 - Novano?s, Brussel >Info: http://www.indymedia.be/extra/2007/11/23/index.html > >Bruno De Bondt >Web/tech Indymedia.be > >bruno at indymedia.be >http://www.indymedia.be > >PGP key: http://brunodbo.be/files/docs/brunoatindymediabe_pubkey.asc >ID: D48B28E2 >Fingerprint: C25C 3B90 4A10 FBBC 3B22 4C7D 3AFB AD2C D48B 28E2 > >_______________________________________________ >Cc-be mailing list >Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/cc-be/attachments/20071127/aa435f2e/attachment.html From bruno at indymedia.be Tue Nov 27 12:17:05 2007 From: bruno at indymedia.be (Bruno De Bondt) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:17:05 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Message-ID: <474C5111.2020201@indymedia.be> Thanks Severine for your reply. There is one other thing that's unclear to me: the matter of the compensation that needs to be paid to the performers of the music, collected by Uradex. Is it correct that this Uradex compensation needs to be paid in any case, even if the performer is not associated with Uradex? Or is it safe to assume that if the composer licenses his/her work under CC, and the performer isn't associated with Uradex, then nothing has to be paid? I'm asking because the Belgian CC license states that it doesn't regulate this compensation (point 4.d in the license - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/be/legalcode.nl). In any case, during the Indymedia.be Open Doors' day (20th January) the people of Netlabelism will play great CC music nonetheless :) thanks, see you soon, -- bruno Severine Dusollier wrote: > Dear Bruno, > > If you play only CC-licensed music and can prove it, you should not > pay anything to the Sabam. > I would suggest you get in contact with the responsible of those > perceptions at Sabam and explain your case. >> The responsible for brussels is : >> Philippe Gontier >> G?rant de la Filiale >> Sabam - R?gion de Bruxelles Capitale >> Rue d'Arlon 75-77 bte 2 >> 1040 Bruxelles >> Tel :++32 2 286 84 74 > Fax ++32 2 742 24 60 > E-mail : agent.bruxelles at sabam.be > > If there is any problem I could intervene. > That implies however that you can demonstrate that all the music you > will play is licensed under CC. > > BUT (and it is a big BUT), it is true that if some artists are members > of the Sabam (and of any European collecting society with which SABAM > collaborates to collect copyright royalties), those artists are > normally not allowed to license their works under a CC license. > Therefore, for those artists, the licenses they put on their works is > not valid for the Sabam. THis is a big issue right now for CC. > Anyway, I would not raise this point to the Sabam, let them find this > legal intricacy by themselves. > > If you have any more questions, you can always call or email me > > S?verine > belgium CC project leader > > > / > / > Professor - University of Namur > CRID (Research Center in Computer Law)- Head of the IPR Department > > Rempart de la Vierge 5 T?l: +32 81 72 47 60 > 5000 NAMUR Fax: +32 81 72 52 02 > BELGIIUM severine.dusollier at fundp.ac.be > http://www.crid.be > >> Hello list, >> >> The people of Fosdem, the yearly Free & Open Source Software Meeting >> held in Brussels, are considering playing CC licensed music in between >> presentations. >> >> Appearantly, they would need to pay Sabam even if the music they play is >> strictly CC licensed. Is this correct? Or does it only matter for >> artists who are a member of Sabam? >> >> Thanks, >> -- bruno >> bruno at indymedia.be >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [FOSDEM-FIT] Music between talks >> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:26:30 +0100 >> From: Jan-Frederik Martens >> Reply-To: fit at lists.fosdem.org >> To: fit at lists.fosdem.org >> References: <4740B8CD.6000903 at fosdem.org> >> >> >> >> Pascal Bleser wrote: >> > But it's just an idea, really. What do you think ? >> >> A legal/financial remark: >> You may think it's crazy, but even if we use Creative Commons or similar >> music, we'll still have to pay the bastards of the 'Billijke Vergoeding': >> >> http://www.debillijkevergoeding.be (down for the moment) >> http://www.unizo.be/viewobj.jsp?article=10014 (dutch) >> http://www.chiro.be/artikel.php?id=672 (dutch) >> >> In short: Sabam needs to be payed for composer/author royalties (does >> not apply here), De billijke vergoeding has to be payed for the >> performance. >> >> I've had a quite unpleasant e-mail correspondance with them a couple of >> years ago about a similar situation. >> >> JF >> >> >> -- >> --------------------------- >> Jan-Frederik Martens >> jfmartens at fosdem.org >> FOSDEM 2008 : 23-24/02 2008 >> --------------------------- >> _______________________________________________ >> FIT mailing list >> FIT at lists.fosdem.org >> http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/fit >> >> >> -- >> >> Benefietconcert Indymedia.be - 23/11 - Novano?s, Brussel >> Info: http://www.indymedia.be/extra/2007/11/23/index.html >> >> Bruno De Bondt >> Web/tech Indymedia.be >> >> bruno at indymedia.be >> http://www.indymedia.be >> >> PGP key: http://brunodbo.be/files/docs/brunoatindymediabe_pubkey.asc >> ID: D48B28E2 >> Fingerprint: C25C 3B90 4A10 FBBC 3B22 4C7D 3AFB AD2C D48B 28E2 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cc-be mailing list >> Cc-be at lists.ibiblio.org >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-be > > > -- > -- Bruno De Bondt Web/tech Indymedia.be bruno at indymedia.be http://www.indymedia.be PGP key: http://brunodbo.be/files/docs/brunoatindymediabe_pubkey.asc ID: D48B28E2 Fingerprint: C25C 3B90 4A10 FBBC 3B22 4C7D 3AFB AD2C D48B 28E2 From mark at markvdb.be Tue Nov 27 12:41:11 2007 From: mark at markvdb.be (Mark Van den Borre) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:41:11 +0100 Subject: [Cc-be] CC music at Fosdem In-Reply-To: References: <474145C0.4020808@indymedia.be> Message-ID: Hi S?v?rine, 2007/11/27, Severine Dusollier : > If you play only CC-licensed music and can prove it, you should not pay > anything to the Sabam. But we would have to pay "billijke vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" right? Have a look at our situation form the following perspective: * The legal way would cost money. * The CC artists we play would never see a cent of this money. * The distribution of the money to artists is a mess. * Simim's license is scheduled to be withdrawn 2007/02/22, the day before FOSDEM * Music between tracks is not FOSDEM core business * Many CC musicians do not want their audience to pay money to the "billijke vergoeding/r?mun?ration ?quitable" monopoly. * Many free software enthousiasts don't want to strengthen the teeth that bite digital freedom. Are there legally safe or tested ways around this? What about: * using MIDI files? * asking for a 0.01? entry fee to make it a "non-public" event and as such exempt from "billijke vergoedig/r?mun?ration ?quitable" > If there is any problem I could intervene. That is really nice of you! > BUT (and it is a big BUT), it is true that if some artists are members of > the Sabam (and of any European collecting society with which SABAM > collaborates to collect copyright royalties), those artists are normally not > allowed to license their works under a CC license. Therefore, for those > artists, the licenses they put on their works is not valid for the Sabam. > THis is a big issue right now for CC. > Anyway, I would not raise this point to the Sabam, let them find this legal > intricacy by themselves. Shouldn't they sue their own members here, and not organisers? Mark -- Mark Van den Borre Noormannenstraat 113 3000 Leuven, Belgi? +32 486 961726