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  • From: Seth Woolley <seth AT tautology.org>
  • To: "Sergey A. Lipnevich" <sergeyli AT pisem.net>
  • Cc: SM-Discuss <sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Discuss] Future source repository
  • Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:00:45 -0800 (PST)

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Hi Sergey, SMGLers

I support a reasonable evaluation of Totally Free (TM) alternatives to the
Almost Free (TM) Perforce setup. I understand practical concerns with not
using CVS to do managament, like directory cleaning, for example, but if
Subversion is apt to handle our concerns, I'd say there's no reason not to
at least exercise an evaluation of it.

p4, being not source-based ran into a glibc problem recently. I tried to
set it on a computer that was glibc-updated, and it segfaulted. Since I
had it working on another box, I just ignored it for the time being until
I learned just in the last couple days what caused it. Not having source
available makes things more difficult to work with, and there's also the
question of security. Many of us compile from source to have some small
semblance of self-built security and peace-of-mind in that there are fewer
steps to the original author. Trust can be chosen, in that case.

I think one could do right by asking the question, "When is a proprietary
solution, even if better, not appropriate for an open source project?"

Many would argue that Perforce isn't better for what we do, than using
Subversion. I, for one, haven't seen a drop-down argument that shows that
Subversion wouldn't be good enough. The proprietary program has the
burden of proof, in this case, given open source's other merits, to show
that the trade-off is necessary and furthers the advancement of our
open-source efforts to give a little in the wrong direction. If we do not
use an open-source solution, we are, in a small way, de-legitimizing the
open-source SCMs, which need all the help we can give them right now in
this period of growing maturity for them.

As much as I've had no real problem with using perforce, personally, I
can't go to somebody and say, "Every program on my machine is built from
source" because I would be lying. Kind of a strange feeling, when that's
the whole point of the distribution (oh and I forgot to mention "fun").

Seth

P.S. I was expecting your email sooner.

P.P.S. I'd offer you access to my smgl server here on my sDSL 640kb/s
personal connection to set this up... up to you if that is enough
bandwidth and you can't find a better alternative. Athlon 2100+ 512MB.

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Sergey A. Lipnevich wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Adding to the urgent migration away from CVS, I wanted to suggest
> evaluating Subversion. I'm willing to perform the setup and customize
> all the commit scripts as necessary. There are two options: I may have
> time and energy to persuade my management to allow our repository to
> remain on our server (which will also mean Bugzilla, ViewSVN - a ViewCVS
> for Subversion, beautiful Horde/IMP webmail for gurus, and hot cocoa
> every morning... maybe :-) ), and setup the project. That was option
> number one, not realistic for at least two weeks. Another option is that
> I can setup Subversion on a system having an Apache 2.0.44 and some
> libraries, and a local SMTP gateway for diff messages, provided that I
> haveSSH access, if such system will be provided by someone else.
> To temper your skepticism, please have a closer look at the Subversion's
> list of active public repositories here:
> http://subversion.tigris.org/svn-repositories.html. Many of these
> projects accumulated sufficient knowledge of how to deal with Subversion
> in a production environment, notably the "IEEE 1394 for Linux" project
> http://www.linux1394.org/, which includes one of the Subversion
> developers (or Subversion includes one of the Linux1394 developers, your
> call). Practical advice on Subversion can be found here:
> http://www.linux1394.org/svn.html, and a big book of advice is here:
> http://subversion.tigris.org/servlets/ProjectDocumentList?folderID=256.
> Be judgemental but technical in your feedback ;-), thank you very much!
>
> Sergey.
>
> _______________________________________________
> SM-Discuss mailing list
> SM-Discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/sm-discuss
>

- --
Seth Alan Woolley <seth at tautology.org>, SPAM/UCE is unauthorized
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