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  • From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
  • To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] ZOO Fantasy
  • Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 12:43:34 -0600

I haven't had an opportunity to read Alonso's proof of another zone but I,
again, think that the point is being missed! It isn't whether fantasy,
imagination, spirit, self analysis, etc are part of the design process, of
course they are, but do they fit the category of zones? No they most
definitely don't!

My version of Wild Design is to use "random assembly" as a real set of
conditions from which to develop a design. This doesn't mean, to me, that
"random assembly" is a zone!

Scott

"To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
obsolete" Buckminster Fuller

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Hart
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 11:04 PM
To: permaculture; Bernard Alonso
Subject: [permaculture] ZOO Fantasy

Yep I go along with all that Toby and Scott purport. But what I am asking
or entering, is the question, is there another zone that has an important
contribution to make, as Bernard Alonso proves, or do we stay stuck in what
we already know and stay stuck in that mind set ?

After all fantasy is real ? for, we all fantasise...some of us more than
others. I often enjoy in my Advanced Permaculture Design Workshops asking
students to create a Wild Design. Fantasy has a little to play here. But,
what it does, is open the doors of lateral thinking in the Design Process.
Vastly lacking it seems from our PC exercises. As mentioned by Jason, there
are a few other zones that we may need to start considering tooo soooner or
later. Steve Hart


On 17 July 2014 05:51, Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Roman...as much as you and I and many others would like, this subject
> will
> > never go to bed. There are many issues to this colourful sector. 1. It
is
> > already firmly established in a number of Permaculture circles. 2. It
may
> > be an issue to recognise and work with rather than against. 3. It may be
> a
> > field that is critical to our 2nd ethic, people care. That discussion
> will
> > take on another chapter by itself. But we have countless examples where
> we
> > are failing in this ethic. So, perhaps Z00 could be the answer to such
> > woes. 4. It is a zone like it or not. 5. It is not physical or tangible
> > but is " an invisible, intangible, non-physical space that requires
> > completely different tools to work with." and melancholy?
> >
> > As mentioned previously I will try and get hold of Bernard Alonso and
get
> > his view on this subject, he teaches it in his PDCs...Steve Hart
> >
> >
> >
> Toby's and Scott's assertions about what are and what are not Permaculture
> zones, what the PC Zone System consists of and how it is used are correct
> as well as practical
> as far as I am concerned. If they will indulge us we may carry on
> brainstorming as there is more to the "Z00" picture. Reality is strange
> enough; who needs fantasy. Thanks to Steve and Ben for keeping this
> discussion alive.
>
> This is a good point to mention Scott's incredibly fine essays on
> Permaculture in his Permaculture Institute Blog,
> http://www.permaculture.org/blog/.
> Read in particular:
>
> What is Permaculture? <http://www.permaculture.org/what-is/>
> http://www.permaculture.org/what-is/
>
> Teaching Permaculture as if it Mattered
> <http://www.permaculture.org/teaching-permaculture-as-if/>
> http://www.permaculture.org/teaching-permaculture-as-if/
>
> My Journey to Permaculture
> <http://www.permaculture.org/my-journey-to-permaculture/>
> http://www.permaculture.org/my-journey-to-permaculture/
>
> I found this interesting Reddit thread and will submit a few quotes from
it
> here.
>
>
>
http://us.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2avryx/what_is_the_strangest_true_
fact_about_the
> What is the strangest true fact about the universe that we typically don't
> consider everyday?
> <
>
http://us.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2avryx/what_is_the_strangest_true_
fact_about_the/
> >
> (self.AskReddit <http://us.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/>)
>
> Comments:
>
> 1) [-]
> <
>
http://us.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2avryx/what_is_the_strangest_true_
fact_about_the#
> >
> wolverinesfire <http://us.reddit.com/user/wolverinesfire> [score hidden]
> an
> hour ago
>
> That thoughts affect the world around us atleast on a quantum level.
>
> Experiments show that our thoughts or observations of things influences
the
> world around us. There are random number generators that usually give an
> equal distribution between choices. But in some experiments people have
> changed the random number generators output after concentrating on it.
>
> A similar kind of thing seems to happen in quantum physics. When a
> researcher runs an experiment firing photons through 2 slits (it has to
> choose one of two pathways), then the distribution is usually 50/50. But
if
> the researcher observing this concentrates on an outcome / 1 possibility,
> this causes a noticeable change in the distribution. So the question
> becomes, if we can influence that, 1) What are we influencing? 2) How? 3)
> What else can we change/influence just by our thoughts?
> 2) Quantum entanglement.
>
> 3) I added: awareness of the incredible immensity, and power, of
infinity;
> that there is no end, it all just keeps going on forever; time without end
> or, if you prefer to leave time out of the picture, a continuum of events
> without beginning or end. Also, compared to the size and mass of Earth
> itself, how little water we have on our planet, how fragile Gaia is and
how
> little pollution it takes to have a significant negative impact on our
> environment.
>
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Skype: lawrence.f.london
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>



--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
Ecology Architect
skype: stevenlawrencehart
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http://www.ipermie.net
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https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
-- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
human habitat





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