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  • From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do you think?
  • Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:42:23 -0700 (PDT)

I understand the first is a response list. I personally would never stop at
response, that's all. On the second list, my initial thought about how to
"create urgency" was the first thing we cover in a PDC which is an assessment
of the actual state of our environment. That tends to create urgency for
anybody who actually considers the information, as you point out. I would
approach each of those steps as a permaculture designer, so wouldn't fall
prey to the FOX news manipulation syndrome, but I do understand that it could
be interpreted that way. 

There are many ways to create change; the Transition model is another model
that has worked. This list is simplistic, and there are a number of things
that appear unrealistic or out of sequence such as forming a powerful
coalition right after the first step and before visioning. I would put that
step pretty far down the list.  How can you have a coalition if there is no
common vision?  

I feel some of the concepts are powerful, when used with judgement and
insight.

K


________________________________
From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do you
think?

The two lists are talking about very different phenomena, as Liane points
out, and so they can't be compared--apples and oranges. The first is a
description, based on case studies, of how people respond to trauma. Only the
second list is a manual for implementing change. One is pull (dealing with an
outcome), the other is push (creating an outcome). Critical thinking, please!

The useful piece for me is that a designer could use the first list to create
a pattern-literate process for helping implement change. We know that people
respond to unwelcome facts or requests initially with denial, so how does a
change maker work with that and design a process that honors the denial
phase, rather than trying to overwhelm it, and help people move rapidly to
acceptance? And so on.

I don't like the "create urgency" tactic, personally. It smacks of Fox
News-style manipulation, and the whole list gives me the sense it was
designed as a way for people who feel disempowered to get their agenda past
other people who feel disempowered (which is the case in most corporate
culture). If change is truly warranted, all you should need to do is alert
people properly to the situation and it will create its own sense of urgency.
An ethical change-maker only creates change where it's needed, not just
because they want to shove people in a particular direction.

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com


On Mar 22, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:

> I hear you. I still don't think it should end at acceptance. Getting on
> with one's life and back into creation of it is very important, once one
> has accepted that someone is gone. I agree that it's an appropriate model
> for Transition, as we move from the death of a culture many of us have
> grown very comfortable with (in this country, not permaculturists), to the
> birth of something that is hopefully far better, but scary and unknown to
> many people. 
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Liane Salgado <gamberster@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do
> you think?
>
> The first model was created as a way of dealing with death and dying, so it
> ends with acceptance. I do think in the case of Transition, the first model
> describes the stages of just accepting reality! Then, we try to create
> change that will affect that reality.
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The first model shouldn't stop at acceptance - that is only the beginning
>> of the journey. But maybe you mean it to lead into the second model? I'm
>> not sure if the order is correct in that one; would have to test it or
>> think about examples more - how it might be like that, or not be like that.
>> I see it as a cyclical movement, not linear, in any case. And since
>> corporate culture is not sustainable, I would remove the word corporate.
>> Not excluding it, but just not limiting to that. We need to create change
>> across the boards.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>  From: Carl DuPoldt <cdupoldt@yahoo.com>
>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:52 PM
>> Subject: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do you
>> think?
>>
>>
>> Two models for implementing change:
>> http://www.change-management-coach.com/kubler-ross.html
>> five stages include
>> denial
>> anger
>> bargaining
>> depression
>> acceptance
>> --------------------------
>> http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newPPM_82.htm
>> eight stages include
>> create urgency
>> form a powerful coalition
>> create a vision
>> communicate the vision
>> remove obstacles
>> create short-term wins
>> build on the change
>> anchor the change in the corporate culture
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
>> Google message archive search:
>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> message archives:  https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
>> Google message archive search:
>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
>> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Days are long, years are short."
> Gretchen Rubin
>
> Liane Salgado
> Energy Modeling
> GIS and Technical Writing
> Permaculture Design
> Chapel Hill, NC
>
> http://www.designbuilderusa.com/
>
> www.transitioncch.org
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com

_______________________________________________
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Yes, and perhaps a no.

I do not see the lists as mutually exclusive (although they certainly are at
any single point in time for any single individual). Rather I see them as
describing the reactions of different people at different stages of the
awareness of a problem.

Societies are made up of many people, with widely different interests and
awareness about problems, the present, and the future. It is futile (IMO) to
expect everyone to have the same level of interest in any problem, until
perhaps it reaches a crisis stage. (BTW I am not saying this is good, just
from my observations the way it is). Therefore I expect that there will be
some people who will notice and latch onto an issue/problem very early on.
Long before it has even come into the awareness of the vast majority. When
that problem is seen as a critical one, it can lead to much fustration for
those who are aware of the problem, and are trying to explain and convince
others about its urgency. It's very difficult to convince a person who can't
even see the shadow of a problem that it requires fixing.

>From this perspective, I think both those lists (as well as a few more) are
>operative in a society at any given point in time. At the beginning, only
>the few who are aware of the looming problem will be working somewhere in
>the second list; the majority will be unaware of the problem and still in
>denial on the first list (if even that far). As the problem begins to show
>itself more and more, people will change their stances. Some will start
>moving through the K-R stages of acceptance. Others will be moving through
>the steps of the second list, or other lists which get constructed as
>alternative solutions to the perceived problem.

So, I guess what I am trying to say is that these two lists represent two of
the many possible different stages of awareness and action about a problem.
The question isn't so much which is the better list, but rather what is the
most viable means of increasing awareness of the problem, and moving people
from one set of reactions (list) to another before the problem reaches a
crisis stage. Which "list" you are "on" is more a measure of your awareness
of the problem than anything else.

A useful question may be what is the appropriate amount of time and energy
for those who are aware of the problem early, to put into the various
steps/stages of the solution and when. Clearly one cannot wait until the
problem is in full bloom to start taking action. But also, it can be a drain
of time and energy (as well as quite fustrating) to crusade for problem which
is too far out of the awareness of the majority to gain traction. Like many
things which deal with society at large, I expect that this will require a
multi-pronged approach; rather than "putting all of our eggs into one
basket."









> From: toby@patternliteracy.com
> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 08:38:40 -0700
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do
> you think?
>
> The two lists are talking about very different phenomena, as Liane points
> out, and so they can't be compared--apples and oranges. The first is a
> description, based on case studies, of how people respond to trauma. Only
> the second list is a manual for implementing change. One is pull (dealing
> with an outcome), the other is push (creating an outcome). Critical
> thinking, please!
>
> The useful piece for me is that a designer could use the first list to
> create a pattern-literate process for helping implement change. We know
> that people respond to unwelcome facts or requests initially with denial,
> so how does a change maker work with that and design a process that honors
> the denial phase, rather than trying to overwhelm it, and help people move
> rapidly to acceptance? And so on.
>
> I don't like the "create urgency" tactic, personally. It smacks of Fox
> News-style manipulation, and the whole list gives me the sense it was
> designed as a way for people who feel disempowered to get their agenda past
> other people who feel disempowered (which is the case in most corporate
> culture). If change is truly warranted, all you should need to do is alert
> people properly to the situation and it will create its own sense of
> urgency. An ethical change-maker only creates change where it's needed, not
> just because they want to shove people in a particular direction.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
>
> > I hear you. I still don't think it should end at acceptance. Getting on
> > with one's life and back into creation of it is very important, once one
> > has accepted that someone is gone. I agree that it's an appropriate model
> > for Transition, as we move from the death of a culture many of us have
> > grown very comfortable with (in this country, not permaculturists), to
> > the birth of something that is hopefully far better, but scary and
> > unknown to many people.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Liane Salgado <gamberster@gmail.com>
> > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do
> > you think?
> >
> > The first model was created as a way of dealing with death and dying, so
> > it
> > ends with acceptance. I do think in the case of Transition, the first
> > model
> > describes the stages of just accepting reality! Then, we try to create
> > change that will affect that reality.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The first model shouldn't stop at acceptance - that is only the beginning
> >> of the journey. But maybe you mean it to lead into the second model? I'm
> >> not sure if the order is correct in that one; would have to test it or
> >> think about examples more - how it might be like that, or not be like
> >> that.
> >> I see it as a cyclical movement, not linear, in any case. And since
> >> corporate culture is not sustainable, I would remove the word corporate.
> >> Not excluding it, but just not limiting to that. We need to create change
> >> across the boards.
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Carl DuPoldt <cdupoldt@yahoo.com>
> >> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:52 PM
> >> Subject: [permaculture] Two models for implementing change - what do you
> >> think?
> >>
> >>
> >> Two models for implementing change:
> >> http://www.change-management-coach.com/kubler-ross.html
> >> five stages include
> >> denial
> >> anger
> >> bargaining
> >> depression
> >> acceptance
> >> --------------------------
> >> http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newPPM_82.htm
> >> eight stages include
> >> create urgency
> >> form a powerful coalition
> >> create a vision
> >> communicate the vision
> >> remove obstacles
> >> create short-term wins
> >> build on the change
> >> anchor the change in the corporate culture
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> >> Google message archive search:
> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> >> Google message archive search:
> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> >> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Days are long, years are short."
> > Gretchen Rubin
> >
> > Liane Salgado
> > Energy Modeling
> > GIS and Technical Writing
> > Permaculture Design
> > Chapel Hill, NC
> >
> > http://www.designbuilderusa.com/
> >
> > www.transitioncch.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> > Google message archive search:
> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> > Google message archive search:
> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> > Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com




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