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  • From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] [soilandhealth] Organic matter percentageing
  • Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 05:54:16 -0800 (PST)

We add stuff when we are missing stuff. We will often bring microbes,
minerals, etc into a system that is depleted of them to give a jump start
(but ideally you would not have to keep bringing it in once you have a good
start). Sometimes it is locked up in the soil, not available to most plants.
So we try to use deep taprooted plants and others that might make it
accessible. Sulfur can come from air, subsoil, rock, organic matter. Some
forms are more accessible than others. Some of the plants that accumulate
sulfur are stinging nettles, mustards, shepard's purse, mullein, fennel,
eyebright.  Organic systems are amazing things - they will strive hard to
balance themselves if given just a bit of a leg up and OM is often all that
is needed.

Best, Koreen


________________________________
From: Richard Wade <wade@coac.es>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] [soilandhealth] Organic matter percentageing

John,
I tried to be brief and only wanted to  point you to good resources to
get your pastures off. If you need sulfur, add it, or anything else that
is missing. But Organic material can only come from the sun.  In a
garden that can be a problem depending on how you manage that, but a
pasture is nothing but a great way to get free OM. Just needs
management. Look up those resources. It wont be a waste of time.
I farm in the Mediterranean, 2000 years of shipping off nutrients, less
than 1% MO to start, rocks and clay. My OM count is going up, in some
cases way up, while my neighbors keep pouring on the fertilizer. Only
green cover can restore land in this condition. (and it IS restoring
it). The time is past when we can haul around lorry loads of other
peoples manures to increase our MO. (at least on a farm level)
Gardeners, especially semi-urban gardeners can rely on recycling the
huge urban waste stream.
Richard
John, Too bad I can't trade a few of our sunny days for a bit of Irish
rain!!
El 30/12/2011 1:35, John D'hondt escribió:
> Richard,everything seems so simple if you start with good soil. 800 years of
> selling sheep wool from a place leaves it severely deficient in sulfur as
> one example. Your pasture can not create sulfur from sunshine I think. We
> are talking "soil" "subsoil and rock" here that was exploited to the hilt
> long before America was discovered.
> john
>
> Hi John,
> If you are selling off more nutrients in your animals than the pastures
> can creat, you have a serious pasture managment problem. Managing
> pasture means getting the sun to  fuel the nutrient cycle and put in the
> OM by maximazing photosynthsis. That's (the photosyntisis) where it all
> came from in the first place.
> You might begin by googling Holistic Management, Managment Intensive
> grazing.
> Richard
>
> El 28/12/2011 20:00, John D'hondt escribió:
>> I agree that razing can improve the land but...what this really amounts to
>> usually is rearing animals on grass and then selling them of the land and
>> by
>> doing this you export a serious amount of nutrients.
>> We could see the result of that sort of practice when we first started
>> farming in Ireland on land that had exported foodcrops for hundreds of
>> years
>> and had almost no soil left, just subsoil and bare rock. We had no option
>> but to import organic matter and in the beginning it was obvious that even
>> then we were loosing the battle for improving our soil by selling lambs
>> and
>> beef. We finally began to see a difference when we could get our hands on
>> tons and tons of free fish waste. This mixed with a carbon source made a
>> difference fast.
>> On the Midwestern Prairies grazers died or were eaten on the spot by
>> predators and so left the nutrients captured in their bodies in place.
>> Also
>> all kinds of birds especially tend to spread out the goodies over large
>> distances. Not much use to us in Ireland where we are one of the few farms
>> left with food for wild birds in the middle of green desert. Once again
>> nutrients are leaving our farm because of this.
>> john
>>
>>>    From a practical standpoint, 50,000 lbs of organic matter is a _lot_ of
>>> material. That is 50 loads on a half ton pick-up truck, or about a load
>>> a week per acre (208' x 208').  That would require  the application of
>>> 1250  40 pound bales of straw per acre, for example. Since I only bring
>>> chemical free organic matter onto my ecofarm, I have not found sources
>>> for that much mass, and I really don't want to. Of my 63 acres, 20 are
>>> tillable (the rest is hardwood forest), so I would need to bring in one
>>> million pounds of matter to raise SOM by 1%. The most practical way to
>>> increase SOM of any significance in temperate climates is by grazing
>>> animals on grass. That is how and why the Midwestern tall grass prairie
>>> (Eastern corn belt) and the central plains attained SOM levels of 8-10
>>> percent. Louis Bromfield claimed he was generating 1" of topsoil per
>>> year on Malabar Farm in Ohio, USA.
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEBoAEb7Opw
>>>
>>> Steve
>>> Indiana USA
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Toby Hemenway
>>> <toby@patternliteracy.com>wrote:
>>>>> Although 50,000 lbs sounds like a lot, it's only about 20 cubic yards
>>>>> per
>>>>> acre, 40 at most. So it's not that hard to boost SOM using compost
>>>>> (even
>>>>> though I'm a big fan of mulches).
>>>>>
>>>>> Toby
>>>>> http://patternliteracy.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 26, 2011, at 3:13 PM, Glenn Gall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/18/2011 2:03 AM, m_astera wrote:
>>>>>> How much compost or manure would one need to add to raise the Soil
>>>>>> Organic Matter SOM content of an acre of soil 6" deep by 1%?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SOM percentage is calculated by weight, not volume. The convention
>>>>>> used is that 1 acre of soil 6-7" deep weighs 2,000,000 (two million)
>>>>>> pounds. Or a hectare of soil 15cm deep weighs 2,000,000 kg. One
>>>>>> percent of that is 20,000 lbs/acre or 20,000 kg/ha
>>>>>> Compost and manure can be assumed to be around 60% moisture and 40%
>>>>>> dry organic matter. So
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 20,000 / 0.40 = 50,000
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To add 1% organic matter to the top 6" or 15cm of soil would require
>>>>>> about 50,000 lbs/acre or 50,000 kg/ha of organic matter at 60%
>>>>>> moisture content.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Bonney
>>> Sustainable Earth
>>> a 501(c)3 not-for-profit membership organization
>>> to promote sustainable farming and food systems
>>>
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>From gpap-permaculture-2@m.gmane.org Fri Dec 30 09:16:40 2011
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] Strictly Permaculture
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Le 29/12/2011 21:36, Lawrence F. London, Jr. a écrit :
> On 1/27/2008 8:37 AM, Michael wrote:
>
>> Why not put a link in the list signature file to a location that would
>> allow a post to be flagged, weighted, and archived to a read-only list
>> of discussion highlights?
>
> That's a great idea. This list is mirrored by a Google Group and a
> Google Blogger Blog.

Very conveniently it is also mirrored as a gmane managed newsgroup (nntp
protocol)
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.politics.activism.permaculture

JLuc





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