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Subject: Orange County, NC Beekeepers

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  • From: Vic Nyman <nyman AT mindspring.com>
  • To: Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: "ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org" <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Local source for inverted sugar?
  • Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:19:25 -0500


Hi Blair (& everyone),

Thanks for the questions… the reason I am interested in finding Drivert or other dry inverted sugar is that I am intending to experiment with mini-nuc queen rearing in the spring. I don't plan to use inverted sugar for other feeding needs. For that, good old standard syrup works great. The inverted sugar idea came from reading hints & tips from different queen rearing communities.

Here are the feed characteristics I am looking for related to my mini-nuc queen rearing experiment: 1) a dry feed for convenience, and 2) something with more acceptance than regular dry sugar. I believe the reason that people are doing this is that, similar to Honey, inverted sugar is hygromic meaning that it will draw moisture. According to some of the opinions out there, the inverted sugar draws moisture making it more appealing to the bees while requiring less water carrying trips to make it useful. Additionally, they claim that having an 8% fructose content also makes it more appealing. Lastly, some claim that the dry feed helps to avoid SHB problems. (Not sure how much I believe this last one, though.)

So, instead of feeding syrup, regular dry sugar, or fondant for stocking a mini-nuc, the inverted sugar seems like a good choice for mini-nucs combining convenience and attractiveness of the feed.

Along those lines, the link you provided ( http://www.bee-outside.com/drivertsugar.aspx ) actually has an interesting response following the post you quoted. The person got the tip of using Drivert sugar from Sue Cobey ( http://beebiology.ucdavis.edu/PEOPLE/susancobey.html ), in her Queen Rearing Seminar. I figure that Sue has learned a few good ideas over her many years of queen raising… I might as well start there.   

So, given the objective of dry feeding convenience, I am hoping to find ready-made inverted sugar rather than trying to create it through the syrup method. 

(Does anyone on the list know of a local source for inverted sugar?)

Vic



On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Vic,

I'm curious about this.  So why inverted sugar? On one hand, by
inverting sugar (breaking sucrose (a 2 part sugar) into its 2 parts,
glucose and fructose), you're actually reducing the calories in the
sugar syrup a small amount (by breaking a bond in sucrose). I think
the bees have an enzyme invertase that does this (see "Fat Bees Skinny
Bees").  It's only if that enzyme is lacking that feeding of inverted
sugar would be significantly different?  It also looks like you can
make your own inverted sugar from sucrose relatively easily.  But at
that point, you're not too far from feeding them fructose directly
which you can buy in big buckets ready to go.

I googled around and saw this:

"Note, Drivert sugar should not be used as a substitute for sugar
syrup feeding, but is an excellent supplement at certain times of the
year"
http://www.bee-outside.com/drivertsugar.aspx

Are you using it to make syrup, fondant, candy board, or just feeding straight?

I went back to "Fat Bees Skinny Bees" to learn some more, and they say
nectar is primarily sucrose.  The bees have enzymes they use during
the ripening process to convert that to fructose and glucose.
However, there are those and other saccharides present in the rest of
the nectar which is not sucrose, which is dependent on the plant.
They also say that the ratio of glucose to fructose is important.  If
there is too much glucose, the honey will crystallize rapidly
(apparently some pollinators of canola can have their frames
crystallize before they pull they supers)...  So perhaps feeding
invert sugar is more like giving them ripe honey that they will store,
as opposed to a sucrose syrup, which could get them more in a brood
rearing mood and might initiate foraging?  Long shot.  I don't know
much about all this, but I'm interested in learning more...

My take would be: focus on the colony as a whole by examining their
reserves going into winter.  Kim Flottum writes about this.  He has
rules of thumb for how much pollen and how much honey going into
winter it will take keep your healthy bees healthy.

Best,
Blair


On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:31 PM, Vic Nyman <nyman AT mindspring.com> wrote:
Happy Holidays Everyone!

Does anyone have a local source for inverted sugar?

I have seen lots of references in the forums for C&H Drivert Sugar and Domino Invert Sugar, but I haven't found an outlet in the area. Most of the bee supply houses would have shipping charges that exceed the cost of the product.

Does anyone have a good source?

Thanks, Vic
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