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  • From: Catherine Adamson <cadamson AT alumni.unc.edu>
  • To: Geneva <gggreen AT mindspring.com>
  • Cc: Thomas Grizzle <griz AT mindspring.com>, Lewis <Lewis AT hivebody.com>, NC Beekeepers Orange County <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] What does "Chemical Free" Mean
  • Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:46:13 -0500

Weighing in with my $0.02:

I am not attracted by the idea of adopting strict standards for the entire group.  

As an example, my hives have never received inputs other than smoke, vinegar, and cane sugar (no "soft" chems, no foundation, no pollen sub).  They are "clean" in excess of the CNG standards as far as beek-introduced contaminants go.  But my yards won't qualify for CNG because all are in suburban and urban areas where I have no control over what chemicals neighbors are using.  Nor would any other apiary in which a 3 mile radius isn't also owned/run by like-minded folks, as I read the standards.  That's a fantastic goal, but pretty off-putting to a new beek in town to hear that they can't measure up to the group's standards.  While those members who can and want to should absolutely apply for CNG certification and demo for the rest of us, I do not think we should be a "CNG Beekeeping" group.

While I don't use thymol or organic acids myself, I don't find their use by others offensive, even though some of them are sufficiently toxic that they ought never be used more than once a season, and some are severe irritants to humans and can burn skin or lungs.  And though all of these are chemicals, I think it's a no-brainer that there is a real distinction between acetic acid and coumaphos, even though both are "chemicals".  Yet I'm equally sure that those using MAQS would feel out of place in a "Chemical-Free Beekeeping group".

Ok, rambling a bit, but I think my point is this:  
I object to ideological purity or adopting strict standards of practice for the "natural" group.  One of my favorite things about OCBA is that assortedly less-lethal beekeepers can get together with folks who swear by their twice-yearly fumigillin+fluvalinate cocktail and talk bees without having to argue these points with each other all the time.  :)

Whatever name we choose, I think we should form a place where experienced beeks can experiment with treatment-free and newbees can learn and share their first triumphs and crushing failures in foundationless without fear of violating group orthodoxy.

-Catherine

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Geneva <gggreen AT mindspring.com> wrote:
Tom
I agree.  While I think individuals should experiment in any way fit, if one of our goals is to prove the viability of alternative methods of mite control and control of other pests and diseases, then I think we should try adopting a plan that has behind it years of research and beekeeping experience.  Perhaps we could invite Buddy Marterre to come and speak or help with apiary setup.
thanks
Geneva

ps.  One of the most difficult aspects of CNG, to me, is the intensive record keeping.  This would be a good place to figure out ahead of time.

On Feb 26, 2012, at 6:11 PM, Thomas Grizzle wrote:

I think working within the framework of CNG seems like the way to go.  Of course, being new, I am hugely operating within the realm of ‘don’t know what I don’t know,’ so I defer to the more experienced if this is not such a perfect idea. 
 
On the CNG site, here’s that list I was looking for, prohibited vs. allowed “chemicals”. 
 
The most basic tenant of toxicology is, “the dose makes the poison.”  Basically, all substances, without exception, are poisonous in the right amount and/or the right orifice.  Water is very toxic in your lungs, as an example.  So I am happy to see that on the “allowed” listing there is at least some mention of concentrations and uses.  Others just say, acetic acid (the acid in vinegar), oxalic acid, lactic acid, or resveratrol, with no indication of why you would use it or in what concentration.  Oxalic acid is quite toxic, and is one of the active toxicants in rhubarb leaves, which if you consume will quite possibly make you very sick.  So “allowed” chemicals are still things to be careful with, no doubt.
 
Tom
 
From: Marty Hanks [mailto:marty AT justbeenc.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 4:42 PM
To: Geneva
Cc: Thomas Grizzle; NC Beekeepers Orange County; Lewis
Subject: Re: [ocba] What does "Chemical Free" Mean
 
I agree Geneva,
 
There were about 5-6 of us from the OCBA at the recent CNG workshop and I agree this will be a great starting point. I was going to suggest we start there to the group and see what they felt. A few more may have been there that are in the bee school, but I did not recoginize them. I also like this as a reference point because it will help those following along understand the goals and guide lines.
 
Do you see this "CNG" Apairy (group) being an arm of the OCBA or a seperate group as we move forward?
I have CNG status here at our place w/ the only last detail being the inspection next month. So i can help the group obtain that status at the new site or sites after things get going.
 
tks,
marty
 
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Geneva <gggreen AT mindspring.com> wrote:
Tom
I agree there needs to be clarification with that term CNG, meaning Certified Naturally Grown, has a very clear standard of what that means in terms of beekeeping, which is easily located on the web but I think "chemical free' is a little vague.  If we are going to create an alternative beekeeping apiary, I suggest we work within the format of CNG.
thanks
Geneva
 
On Feb 25, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Thomas Grizzle wrote:


What is meant by this terminology?  Does this mean you don’t treat the various adverse conditions of the hive with pesticides?  I suppose there may be a (long) list of things and/or practices that are banned if you are going “chemical free”. 
 
Thanks…Tom Grizzle
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Geneva Green
7211 Wilkerson Road
Cedar Grove, NC 27231
 
 
 

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--
Marty Hanks
Just Bee, Apiaries
 
 Home of the Orange County Honey Project.
"Created by Artisans....Bottled by Humans"
 

Geneva Green
7211 Wilkerson Road
Cedar Grove, NC 27231




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